Better Call Saul

[rico]

As I am sure many of y'all already know, a spinoff of "Breaking Bad" titled "Better Call Saul" will be airing in 2014. This is going to be a prequel to Breaking Bad and will be based on the character of Saul Goodman from "Breaking Bad."

I, for one, will be watching. I'm sure the majority of all of you other "Breaking Bad" fans will be as well. Might as well get the discussion going sooner rather than later.

So... what are your hopes, expectations and/or concerns with the show? Here are some of mine:

Hopes: I hope to see Saul do his thing in the courtroom. I hope to see strong, unique supporting characters. I hope to see Breaking Bad foreshadowing. I hope he has an intriguing paralegal and/or assistant. I hope to see Breaking Bad characters such as Fring, Mike, etc...whoever. I hope the show kicks ass.

Expectations: I don't expect it to be as good as "Breaking Bad" (because nothing else is, really), but I expect it to be good since Vince Gilligan is writing. I somewhat expect it to have an even balance of comedy and drama...since Saul undeniably provides a substantial amount of comedic relief in "Breaking Bad." I expect to see "courtroom Saul." I expect the "Breaking Bad" references and character cameos to be less than what I hope. If it isn't even a fraction as good as "Breaking Bad," I expect it to be better than 95% of everything else on TV, since there is some shitty shit on TV these days.

Concerns: I'd be a liar if I were to say that I didn't think this show has potential of flopping and certainly failing to meet the presumed high expectations of the audience. Don't get me wrong, I think it will be good... but I think it COULD suck if not executed properly. My main concern is Saul ultimately proving himself to be a "little dab will do ya" type of character, which would lead to a show centered around his character not working out. I am hoping that the character of Saul will not be so over-used and constantly over the top, that he becomes annoying to me, thus ruining his character for me altogether... Not saying I think this will be how it goes down...just saying I think there is a CHANCE of this being the case, which prompts me to believe that a strong supporting cast is VITAL in terms of the amount of success/quality this show will accumulate. All in all, I don't think VG will steer us in an unfortunate direction though...I think they'll pull it off.

Thoughts?

DISCUS!!!!

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by NewChief

Agreed. There's also, imo, the sibling dynamic of his brother just isn't good enough to do what Chuck does, in his opinion. And what that really equates to is that Chuck thinks he's better than Jimmy (maybe correctly)... and that's never a good starting point for sibling relationships.

It's doubly galling in that Jimmy has been taking care of Chuck this whole time and struggling to make it as a lawyer, and Chuck blithely sits back and eats up Jimmy's devotion. Nevermind that the whole reason that Jimmy's struggling so much is in large part due to Chuck's refusal to help him in his legal career. I think that's what galls me so much about Chuck, that Jimmy's certainly good enough to take care of his insane ass and do all sorts of menial bullshit for him that has absolutely zero financial rewards, but god forbid he practice law.

Oh, and he has Jimmy going out and "negotiating" with the firm on his behalf from a legal standpoint, but it's completely under false pretenses the whole time.

It reeks of elitist classism.

I'd say that's a lot of what it boils down to. His sheer inability to see Jimmy as any kind of equal (whether that be morally, intellectually, or from a career perspective). He can't imagine a guy like his brother being on the same "level" he is and it irks him that Jimmy even tries. He'd much rather pigeonhole him in his mind as Slippin' Jimmy and not have to ever alter it (and after the betrayal, he'll probably never have to).

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

I'd say that's a lot of what it boils down to. His sheer inability to see Jimmy as any kind of equal (whether that be morally, intellectually, or from a career perspective). He can't imagine a guy like his brother being on the same "level" he is and it irks him that Jimmy even tries. He'd much rather pigeonhole him in his mind as Slippin' Jimmy and not have to ever alter it (and after the betrayal, he'll probably never have to).

I'd dispute those perspectives aside from the moral component.

I think Chuck admires a lot about Jimmy, just not as a lawyer. He probably thinks he'd be a good spouse and provider, a good worker in other professions, that he is a good brother, etc.

But he fetishizes the law, and to an extent, he's justified. An attorney wields great power over the fate of his clients and his opposition. They are entrusted with secrets and the fate of wealth and possessions, as well as the very lives of clients facing criminal charges. Chuck is a rule follower, which in some ways impinges on his abilities as an advocate. There's a reason he is a civil attorney. There are rules and evidence that are black and white. If he wins a case, the law was on his side. If he loses a case, he followed the law and can sleep at night.

I don't think he has it in him to be a zealous advocate when the liberty of an accused criminal is on the line. He could never 'advise'/nudge a client to destroy damning evidence, or coach one on the fine points of answering questions in a way that obfuscates metaphysical truth. There is a philosophical merit to his standards, but it would prove cold solace to a client serving jail time because Chuck revered the law more than he defended his client.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I'd dispute those perspectives aside from the moral component.

What's to dispute? Chuck told Jimmy straight up that he wasn't a "real lawyer" on his own esteemed level. There's no question he thinks he's superior in that regard.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

What's to dispute? Chuck told Jimmy straight up that he wasn't a "real lawyer" on his own esteemed level. There's no question he thinks he's superior in that regard.

I don't think he dismisses his intellect, his ability to summate a matter to serve his client, his business sense, his capability, etc. Just his character when it comes to litigating.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I don't think he dismisses his intellect, his ability to summate a matter to serve his client, his business sense, his capability, etc. Just his character when it comes to litigating.

Regardless of what the reasons are (and some of them are probably totally justifiable), he still doesn't see him as an equal from a career perspective. The fact that Jimmy even got the law degree bothered him.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Regardless of what the reasons are (and some of them are probably totally justifiable), he still doesn't see him as an equal from a career perspective. The fact that Jimmy even got the law degree bothered him.

From a correspondence course from Guam.

The law, whatever it may be, is not a STEM course, where a convolution is;



whether you're at MIT or in a basement in S.Dakota.

There are things you learn about critical analysis, and interpersonal integrity, and ethics, in 3 years in a classroom and in study groups that you can't replicate on a computer.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

From a correspondence course from Guam.

Yes, that's another (arguably legitimate) reason for Chuck to believe he's superior on a career level than Jimmy. There is no doubting the fact that he does. Not sure what the point of this tangent was.

[KC_Connection]

When we started the show and thought about Chuck, he was somebody who was fundamentally helpless at the moment,” executive producer Peter Gould tells EW. “He was somebody who Jimmy had to take care of. And part of the reason we loved it was because it humanized Jimmy. We thought the connection between the two brothers gave us an insight into Jimmy’s heart, to understand how and why he became a lawyer. Once we saw Michael McKean play Chuck, he brought some colors to it that I don’t think we were really expecting. Chuck, as Michael plays him, is someone with a tremendous sense of righteousness, sometimes self-righteousness. He’s also a guy with a lot of pride. And as we were working our way through the season, we started talking about how Chuck really feels about Jimmy.

“Part of the reason Jimmy’s always gotten into trouble is because he could never equal Chuck,” Gould continues. “Chuck was always the good brother. But from Chuck’s point of view, Jimmy was the one who got all the attention. Jimmy was the kid who would make everyone laugh with a joke. And Chuck, for all his ability and all his brains, really doesn’t have the common touch. And we realized—and it came as a shock to us—that on some level, Chuck is jealous of Jimmy. And that Hamlin wasn’t the problem for Jimmy, really; it’s Chuck. Chuck does not want Jimmy in his law firm. It makes Chuck deeply uncomfortable for so many reasons—some of them legitimate—to have Jimmy be a lawyer at his level. And one of the things I love about the scene at the end of episode 9 that [co-executive producer] Tom Schnauz wrote, and that Bob and Michael played, is that Chuck is not all wrong. Especially those of us who watched Breaking Bad know that there is an element of truth to what he says: ‘The law is sacred. If you abuse that power, people get hurt. This is not a game.’ And that brings up the question: How much is that a self-fulfilling prophecy? Does Jimmy act out because deep down, he believes what Chuck thinks of him?”

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/03/30...ld-jimmy-chuck

Gould talking about Chuck's reasons for making the decision he did (both selfish and principled). Also gets into the whole self-fulfilling prophecy debate about Jimmy's own bad choices (and whether Chuck's opinion of him as a scumbag plays a factor in them).

[Buehler445]

Discussions like this are what makes the show great. There aren't many shows on TV right now that we can discuss like this. It's really incredible.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Discussions like this are what makes the show great. There aren't many shows on TV right now that we can discuss like this. It's really incredible.

The show has also hit emotional highs that I don't think BB ever really did until the last few seasons of its run. It's a very good start.

[eDave]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

The show has also hit emotional highs that I don't think BB ever really did until the last few seasons of its run. It's a very good start.

Did I hear right tonight that Jesse is getting his own spinoff?

We surely have to see him on Saul at some point.

[RobBlake]

Originally Posted by eDave

Did I hear right tonight that Jesse is getting his own spinoff?

We surely have to see him on Saul at some point.

that would be bad ass.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by eDave

Did I hear right tonight that Jesse is getting his own spinoff?

We surely have to see him on Saul at some point.

Pinkman before BB was pretty lame. Pinkman after BB might be cool but I don't know where they'd go with it. BB did a good job on Pinkman during the BB timeline and decent before BB.

Whereas Saul just showed up out of nowhere.

[RobBlake]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Pinkman before BB was pretty lame. Pinkman after BB might be cool but I don't know where they'd go with it. BB did a good job on Pinkman during the BB timeline and decent before BB.

Whereas Saul just showed up out of nowhere.

well they can show how he got started into meth and his "spicy" specialty or w/e the hell it was

[frankotank]

Originally Posted by eDave

Did I hear right tonight that Jesse is getting his own spinoff?

We surely have to see him on Saul at some point.

Spinoff BITCH!