Chiefs *signing* Mitchell Schwartz

[Dante84]

I'm excited to announce that I'll be joining the @Chiefs!!! #ChiefsKingdom

— Mitchell Schwartz (@MitchSchwartz72) March 9, 2016

Kansas City is finalizing a 5-year deal with soon-to-be former Browns OT Mitchell Schwartz, from @PatMcManamon and me.

— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) March 9, 2016

Hearing Mitchell Schwartz is going to Kansas City. True that Browns pulled deal off table. #browns

— Andy Baskin (@andy_baskin) March 9, 2016

[O.city]

Originally Posted by RunKC

You don’t remember Pat injuring his ankle and then re-injuring it while Fisher was out?

Remember in Tennessee when Erving missed multiple blocks and got Schwartz and Rankin injured?

I mean, he is a backup tackle so it wasn't gonna be perfect. But they still put up points and moved the ball. Maybe had they had Tyreek in those times Pat could have gotten the ball out quicker?

In the end i don't think it's really a problem either way how they're labeled or ranked. Other than Mahomes, they can make due, but wont' be nearly as good.

[Mecca]

Tyreek Hill basically gives everyone else on the offense more space to operate in, I think he's the most valuable guy on the team after Mahomes.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RunKC

You don’t remember Pat injuring his ankle and then re-injuring it while Fisher was out?

Remember in Tennessee when Erving missed multiple blocks and got Schwartz and Rankin injured?

The Chiefs undefeated record with Fisher in the lineup is notable and an extremely strong argument in his favor.

But let's also realize that the Chiefs had done very little to protect against long-term injury to Fisher or Schwartz when Fisher went down. We all knew how overmatched Erving was going to be out there.

And the Chiefs recognized the issue when they grabbed Niang.

You can cite Hardman and say "well we have a replacement for Hill if we lose him..." but that's a product of the Chiefs feeling like there was a NEED there and moving aggressively in the 2nd round to fill it. After witnessing firsthand the disaster of Erving at LT, the Chiefs likewise noticed a need and addressed it with Niang.

I've been a Fisher backer literally his entire career here. I'm still dumbfounded by how eager some are to cut the guy lose and the cries that he's overpaid (he ain't). Above average LTs with strenghts in pass pro are hard to get your hands on. But when the ink is dry, history will largely forget Eric Fisher outside of the fact that he was a credible LT on a championship team.

Hill, OTOH, has a path to the Hall of Fame.

He has to be considered the more important player.

[Mecca]

Fisher basically gets shit on for not being a perennial all pro because of where he was drafted. He is a solid player and isn't breaking the bank, if he was drafted like 22nd overall we wouldn't have the people feeling the way they do.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The Chiefs undefeated record with Fisher in the lineup is notable and an extremely strong argument in his favor.

But let's also realize that the Chiefs had done very little to protect against long-term injury to Fisher or Schwartz when Fisher went down. We all knew how overmatched Erving was going to be out there.

And the Chiefs recognized the issue when they grabbed Niang.

You can cite Hardman and say "well we have a replacement for Hill if we lose him..." but that's a product of the Chiefs feeling like there was a NEED there and moving aggressively in the 2nd round to fill it. After witnessing firsthand the disaster of Erving at LT, the Chiefs likewise noticed a need and addressed it with Niang.

I've been a Fisher backer literally his entire career here. I'm still dumbfounded by how eager some are to cut the guy lose and the cries that he's overpaid (he ain't). Above average LTs with strenghts in pass pro are hard to get your hands on. But when the ink is dry, history will largely forget Eric Fisher outside of the fact that he was a credible LT on a championship team.

Hill, OTOH, has a path to the Hall of Fame.

He has to be considered the more important player.

I agree with you, but notice I prefaced my post with the team as constructed.

If Tyreek goes down, it’s not the end of the world. HOF TE, Watkins, Hardman in year 2 (who could be a very credible replacement for Tyreek IMO), Robinson as a #3 receiver, D, Williams and then arguably the best gamechanging weapon from CFB last year as your 1st rd pick.

Tyreek is definitely the better player, but when there’s a shit ton of extremely talented weapons, it makes his loss less of an impact.

It’s more of a credit to Mahomes. If Pat has the offense this year without Tyreek he’s still putting up 24 points in his sleep and averaging 30+

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RunKC

I agree with you, but notice I prefaced my post with the team as constructed.

If Tyreek goes down, it’s not the end of the world. HOF TE, Watkins, Hardman in year 2 (who could be a very credible replacement for Tyreek IMO), Robinson as a #3 receiver, D, Williams and then arguably the best gamechanging weapon from CFB last year as your 1st rd pick.

Tyreek is definitely the better player, but when there’s a shit ton of extremely talented weapons, it makes his loss less of an impact.

It’s more of a credit to Mahomes. If Pat has the offense this year without Tyreek he’s still putting up 24 points in his sleep and averaging 30+

But the team, 'as constructed' is still led by a guy who developed a gameplan that allowed us to win a game w/ Jah Reid blocking JJ Watt in his prime.

Those same talented weapons will likewise allow Reid to take steps to protect Mahomes from a mediocre LT. And with Niang here (and even Remmers), I do believe we have a significant step up from Erving, at least as a T.

Erving was the worst T we've had on this team SINCE Jah Reid. He bad.

But I guess this argument, as most do, ultimately comes down to ceiling vs. floor. I think I floor is reduced more by the loss of Fisher than the loss of Hill - yes. Losing Fisher could mean games where we just struggle to function at all and are looking at those 13 or 17 point games against teams that have the kind of front-4 to do damage from all over. Losing Hill isn't likely to do that.

But at the same time, against teams that DON'T have that kind of dynamic front-4, our ceiling remains incredibly high. We can still go out there without Fisher against a team without a monster pass-rush and put up 40+ if we have Hill.

Without Hill, that ceiling is significantly lower, IMO.

[O.city]

I think Hardman is being pretty overrated at this point. He's fast but he's no where near Tyreek at this point.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

I think Hardman is being pretty overrated at this point. He's fast but he's no where near Tyreek at this point.

Agreed.

For that matter, he'll never be Tyreek. Hill does shit in and out of his cuts that just don't happen with guys that also have long-speed like that. He's a pristine route runner, he's also built like a brick shithouse so you can send him anywhere on the field.

If everything goes according to script, Hardman could be something akin to DeSean Jackson someday. Whereas if Hill keeps on his present track, he's just something of a unicorn. A faster, stronger, more dynamic version of Steve Smith (who went for 1K at 35 years old).

They just don't make many guys who can do what Hill did in 2018 and that may not have been the best Hill can do.

Hardman will likely never have a season approaching that (Hill's 2017 would be a more realistic and potentially attainable target for him). But as a do everything, all fields, all times weapon - Hardman's never gonna be the guy Hill evolved into in 2018.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Agreed.

For that matter, he'll never be Tyreek. Hill does shit in and out of his cuts that just don't happen with guys that also have long-speed like that. He's a pristine route runner, he's also built like a brick shithouse so you can send him anywhere on the field.

If everything goes according to script, Hardman could be something akin to DeSean Jackson someday. Whereas if Hill keeps on his present track, he's just something of a unicorn. A faster, stronger, more dynamic version of Steve Smith (who went for 1K at 35 years old).

They just don't make many guys who can do what Hill did in 2018 and that may not have been the best Hill can do.

Hardman will likely never have a season approaching that (Hill's 2017 would be a more realistic and potentially attainable target for him). But as a do everything, all fields, all times weapon - Hardman's never gonna be the guy Hill evolved into in 2018.

Pretty much. As you said earlier, Hill is on track to be what, a Hall of Fame type player? Thats not easily replaceable.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Pretty much. As you said earlier, Hill is on track to be what, a Hall of Fame type player? Thats not easily replaceable.

My only real worry w/ Hill at this point is looking at what happened with Odell Beckham. That guy looked first-ballot lock until suddenly he didn't and now he looks washed about 2/3 of the time.

Was it the injury? Money/fame? QB/coaching change? Time? All of the above?

I mean Hill's only 2 years younger than OBJ but it seems like OBJ aged in dog-years. You obviously don't expect that to happen with a force of nature like Hill, but you never really expect it with any of the top tier guys until it just happens...

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

My only real worry w/ Hill at this point is looking at what happened with Odell Beckham. That guy looked first-ballot lock until suddenly he didn't and now he looks washed about 2/3 of the time.

Was it the injury? Money/fame? QB/coaching change? Time? All of the above?

I mean Hill's only 2 years younger than OBJ but it seems like OBJ aged in dog-years. You obviously don't expect that to happen with a force of nature like Hill, but you never really expect it with any of the top tier guys until it just happens...

OBJ just went full NY diva it seems and never came down from that.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Fisher basically gets shit on for not being a perennial all pro because of where he was drafted. He is a solid player and isn't breaking the bank, if he was drafted like 22nd overall we wouldn't have the people feeling the way they do.

I’d agree. And in hindsight that’s about the best pick out of that garbage draft.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

My only real worry w/ Hill at this point is looking at what happened with Odell Beckham. That guy looked first-ballot lock until suddenly he didn't and now he looks washed about 2/3 of the time.

Was it the injury? Money/fame? QB/coaching change? Time? All of the above?

I mean Hill's only 2 years younger than OBJ but it seems like OBJ aged in dog-years. You obviously don't expect that to happen with a force of nature like Hill, but you never really expect it with any of the top tier guys until it just happens...

I think with OBJ his give a shitter fritzed out when he got all the pub in NY when he had a meh year and they got their asses kicked.

Just listening to Hill in game I don’t think he’s susceptible to that kind of thing.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Fisher basically gets shit on for not being a perennial all pro because of where he was drafted. He is a solid player and isn't breaking the bank, if he was drafted like 22nd overall we wouldn't have the people feeling the way they do.

I've been pretty hard on Fisher, but he's turned into a pretty good tackle.

I don't think Alex Smith did him any favors either.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Fun fact. We didn’t lose a game last year in which Fisher played in

[DJ's left nut]

I mean the guy's not a typical 1.1 caliber player.

A typical 1.1 caliber player (Bosa) pretty routinely abused him in the SB. But in typical Pre-Mahomes Chiefs fashion, the year we got 1.1 there was just dick at the position. There wasn't a typical 1.1 caliber prospect in that draft.

So he'd disappointing by default. He's not a 'premier' left-tackle in this league in that truly excellent DEs can beat him with some regularity. But he's not a liability and that's...fine. It's better than what many teams have.

And he's just athletic enough at his size that Andy feels comfortable leaving him on an island, which (just as is the case with Schwartz) opens up the playbook quite a bit.

Would you like to see the only first overall pick in franchise history be a HoF caliber player? Especially when it's at such a thankless position? Of course, but there just wasn't an Orlando Pace guy to be had. So among guys that were legitimate considerations for 1.1 (lets say anyone taken in the top 20 of that weird-ass draft), you've got Fisher, Lane Johnson and...what? Ansah?

It was just an ass draft, but the Chiefs probably got it as right as they could have.