why the 'draftniks' and 'armchair GM's' crack me up ...

[Hootie]

I was reading Kiper's redraft of 2009 on Reddit today and I'm going to post it here:

Here you go! I was going to post the whole thing originally, but it's a lot of text and I was worried people wouldn't want to have to scroll through it all to read other comments.
(1.) Detroit Lions: Matthew Stafford, QB
Stafford's actual slot: No. 1 overall
Detroit's actual pick: Stafford
He's been a good QB with bouts of greatness, and while you can call modern passing stats inflated, Stafford is on a pace to eclipse 50,000 passing yards in his career. He's safely past 21,000 yards and is barely 27 years old, and my guess is his best football is in front of him. He isn't the star at his position that the No. 2 pick on this list is, but Stafford could play another 10 good years.
(2.) St. Louis Rams: Clay Matthews, OLB
Matthews' actual slot: No. 26 overall
St. Louis' actual pick: Jason Smith, OT
Pete Carroll recently said he failed to recognize how great Matthews was while he coached him at USC, but Pete didn't exactly fail Matthews, who still went in Round 1 and has become a star. He has 61.0 sacks, and could have more if Green Bay didn't require his versatility. At 28, he shows no real signs of slowing, either.
(3.) Kansas City Chiefs: LeSean McCoy, RB
McCoy's actual slot: No. 53 overall
Kansas City's actual pick: Tyson Jackson, DE
I'm breaking my rules on positional value in having McCoy so high, but whom would you put ahead of him here? He leads the draft class in rushing yards with 6,792, and he's not exactly washed up, as he hasn't missed a game in either of the past two seasons, and won't even turn 27 until July. A 10,000-yard career wouldn't be a surprise.
(4.) Seattle Seahawks: Julian Edelman, WR
Edelman's actual slot: No. 232 overall
Seattle's actual pick: Aaron Curry, LB
I know, I know. Call me crazy, but remember this involves future production too, and Edelman has a great case there. He has 197 catches during the past two seasons combined, which is third in the NFL. He has a team-friendly deal through 2017, and you can make an argument that he's really just hitting his prime now, as he caught just 69 passes in his first four seasons as he slowly moved up the depth chart and made the adjustments needed after playing QB in college. I had a GM recently tell me Edelman is "the toughest cover in the NFL right now," and if you watched the Super Bowl you can see why. Maybe there's some recency bias here, but I won't lose sleep over it.
(5.) New York Jets: Vontae Davis, CB
Davis' actual slot: No. 25 overall
New York's actual pick: Mark Sanchez, QB
He has been one of the top few cover corners in the NFL during the past couple of seasons, and is showing no signs of slowing down. Based on that alone, he's worth plenty. He's second among players in this draft class with 17 career INTs, but no corner from the 2009 draft is currently at Davis' level. He and Darrelle Revis would have been a decent pair.
(6.) Cincinnati Bengals: Alex Mack, C
Mack's actual slot: No. 21 overall
Cincinnati's actual pick: Andre Smith, OT
He was a starter from day one, and has quietly been one of the best centers in the league every single year since 2009. When he was injured in 2014 it totally derailed the Cleveland run game. It seems crazy to see a center go this high, but Mack went pretty high in the actual draft, too.
(7.) Oakland Raiders: Mike Wallace, WR
Wallace's actual slot: No. 84 overall
Oakland's actual pick: Darrius Heyward-Bey, WR
Wallace, who leads the 2009 draft class in both receptions (375) and yards (5,834), is easily one of the top steals in the class, but loses a little ground (namely to Edelman) because you have to wonder if we've already seen the best of him. Since his breakout 2010 season where he became the top deep threat in the league not named Calvin Johnson, he hasn't quite been the same. Now he has a chance to become the No. 1 option for the emerging Teddy Bridgewater. It's funny, but Wallace's skill set totally fits the old Raiders draft profile, too.
(8.) Jacksonville Jaguars: Arian Foster, RB
Foster's actual slot: Undrafted
Jacksonville's actual pick: Eugene Monroe, OT
Easily the top steal of 2009, Foster went undrafted, falling on injury questions, fumble issues and (of course) positional value. (All of those things can of course be disputed -- I'm just stating what the reality was from the team perspective at the time.) He's second only to McCoy in rushing yards for this class (6,309) and also has more than 2,000 receiving yards. Foster dips slightly on future potential, having missed time in each of the past two seasons.
(9.) Green Bay Packers: Sebastian Vollmer, OT
Vollmer's actual slot: No. 58 overall
Green Bay's actual pick: B.J. Raji, DT
The pride of Dusseldorf has dealt with some injuries, but when healthy, he's among the best right tackles in the league, and has been consistent in his performance throughout his career. He gets bonus points for being such a crucial part of a winner and because No. 12 hasn't missed any time during his tenure. (Tom Brady played only one game in 2008, the season before Vollmer was drafted.)
(10). San Francisco 49ers: Max Unger, C
Unger's actual slot: No. 49 overall
San Francisco's actual pick: Michael Crabtree, WR
The third center drafted in this class, Unger might be the best of them -- when healthy. He has now missed significant time in two seasons -- including last year -- but when he's right, he's an All-Pro caliber player, which is why he was part of the compensation to New Orleans to bring Jimmy Graham to Seattle this offseason.
(11.) Buffalo Bills: Michael Bennett, DE
Bennett's actual slot: Undrafted
Buffalo's actual pick: Aaron Maybin, DE
Overlooked out of Texas A&M, where he had just 6.5 sacks in his four years, Bennett moves up here because he was an outstanding player the past two seasons for Seattle, showing great versatility during that time as Pete Carroll and Dan Quinn moved him all over. Bennett appears to have a lot of good football left, which bumps him up, too.
(12.) Denver Broncos: Louis Vasquez, OT
Vazquez's actual slot: No. 78 overall
Denver's actual pick: Knowshon Moreno, RB
The former Texas Tech star may not play a premium position, but he has been one of the best guards in the NFL since he entered the league, an All-Pro who left San Diego for Denver and has been outstanding for the Broncos. He's still just 27, so he's got plenty to offer in the years to come.
(13.) Washington Redskins: Brian Orakpo, OLB
Orakpo's actual slot: No. 13 overall
Washington's actual pick: Orakpo
While he has been dogged by injuries in two of the past three seasons, I'd like to think Orakpo can get back to 100 percent and add to an impressive start to his career. He's second to Matthews in this class with 40.0 career sacks, has been to three Pro Bowls -- when healthy, that's where he can be -- and the Titans have bet that he'll continue to get the to the QB.
(14.) New Orleans Saints: DeAndre Levy, LB
Levy's actual slot: No. 76 overall
New Orleans' actual pick: Malcolm Jenkins, DB
This spot might surprise some of you, but this is a fact: Levy has been one of the best linebackers in the NFL over the past two seasons, and the 27-year-old Wisconsin product appears to be just hitting his stride, so I could see him add at least a few more really good seasons. He trailed only Luke Kuechly in tackles last season (153 to 151) and should continue to be a rangy tackling machine. (He's second in the draft class in tackles for his career.)
(15.) Houston Texans: Jeremy Maclin, WR
Maclin's actual slot: No. 19 overall
Houston's actual pick: Brian Cushing, LB
Had he not missed the entire 2013 season with a knee injury, Maclin would probably be leading the 2009 draft class in receiving yards, or at least be pretty close. He drops a bit because 2014 was actually his first season with more than 1,000 yards receiving, and because it's hard to assume he'll have an uptick in production in Kansas City. But he'll certainly be the No. 1 threat in that offense.
(16.) San Diego Chargers: Jairus Byrd, S
Byrd's actual slot: No. 42 overall
San Diego's actual pick: Larry English, OLB
He hasn't been fully healthy in either of the past two seasons, and there have been plenty of comments made about the big contract New Orleans gave him, but Byrd at 100 percent has been one of the best cover safeties in the NFL, elected to three Pro Bowls, and plenty worth the cash. He leads the draft class in INTs (22) and hopefully returns to peak form.
(17.) Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Connor Barwin, OLB
Barwin's actual slot: No. 46 overall
Tampa Bay's actual pick: Josh Freeman, QB
It's possible Barwin belongs higher coming off a 14.5-sack season, so there's some good football ahead of him. Barwin didn't see much of the field over his first two seasons, and he has been moved around over the past four years as he has established himself, but more of what we saw in 2014 will push him up.
(18.) Denver Broncos: Terrance Knighton, DT
Knighton's actual slot: No. 72 overall
Denver's actual pick: Robert Ayers, DE
Knighton was underrated early in his career as he played well for some bad teams in Jacksonville. He's not going to give you 900 snaps per season, but he's one of the better rotation defenders you'll find for the interior of the D-line and was useful in Denver over the past two seasons. He's now headed to D.C.
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[–]patsfanthrowaway[S] 6 points 1 day ago
(19.) Philadelphia Eagles: Malcolm Jenkins, DB
Jenkins' actual slot: No. 14 overall
Philadelphia's actual pick: Jeremy Maclin, WR
Never a star, Jenkins has been moved around, and was solid last year for Philadelphia, playing a somewhat incredible 1,200 snaps. I give him a slight bump here on future production as he's signed in Philadelphia at a reasonable number for two more seasons and would still be only 29 when that deal is done.
(20.) Detroit Lions: James Laurinaitis, LB
Laurinaitis' actual slot: No. 35 overall
Detroit's actual pick: Brandon Pettigrew, TE
One of the more recognizable defensive players in the 2009 draft, Laurinaitis has never been a star at the NFL level, but he's also never really come off the field, and durability is a big factor in how you're perceived in this league. He's started 96 of a possible 96 games -- with no end in sight -- and he has 593 total tackles; nobody else in the class has more than 438.
(21.) Cleveland Browns: Hakeem Nicks, WR
Nicks' actual slot: No. 29 overall
Cleveland's actual pick: Alex Mack, C
Nagging injuries have kept him from maintaining what he was in 2010 and 2011, when he had back-to-back 1,000-yard seasons, and the question now is whether Nicks has any good football left. He's No. 2 in the class in both receptions (349) and receiving yardage (5,027), but the future is cloudy right now.
(22.) Minnesota Vikings: Glover Quin, S
Quin's actual slot: No. 112 overall
Minnesota's actual pick: Percy Harvin, WR
He's not a star, but Quin is solidly above average and beyond that when it comes to dependability. Since 2010, Quin has started 80 of a possible 80 games and was a big part of Detroit's defense making a big statistical jump in 2014.
(23.) Baltimore Ravens: Michael Oher, OT
Oher's actual slot: No. 23 overall
Baltimore's actual pick: Oher
Oher will be playing for his third franchise in 2015, as the Panthers will give him a chance to handle left tackle. While he has started 91 NFL games, Oher has mostly hovered in the range of serviceable, and has never reached star status, something that was probably unfairly assumed for him after he became such a big literary and Hollywood subject. But he has been healthy and, in the context of draft reality, I'd never call him a letdown.
(24.) Atlanta Falcons: William Moore, S
Moore's actual slot: No. 55 overall
Atlanta's actual pick: Peria Jerry, DT
Moore lost much of the 2014 season with a shoulder injury, but has made a Pro Bowl and was a reasonably dependable starter for the previous four seasons. If healthy, he should get back to that form in 2015.
(25.) Miami Dolphins: Percy Harvin, WR
Harvin's actual slot: No. 22 overall
Miami's actual pick: Vontae Davis, CB
Harvin's name seems to inspire a lot of buzz, which isn't unfair if you saw him in his prime with the ball in his hands. But the reality is he hasn't been a big part of an NFL offense since the 2012 season, and he played in only nine games that year. He's still only 26 years old, but he'll be with his fourth franchise in 2015. Harvin does have an All-Pro season on his résumé -- as a return man in 2009.
(26.) Green Bay Packers: Brandon Pettigrew, TE
Pettigrew's actual slot: No. 20 overall
Green Bay's actual pick: Clay Matthews, OLB
Sure, he's an enigmatic talent who most Lions fans would say hasn't lived up to the draft-day hype, but Pettigrew has caught 294 passes (a full 60 more than any other TE in the draft) and should have some good football left, with at least one more year in Detroit.
(27.) Indianapolis Colts: Lardarius Webb, CB
Webb's actual slot: No. 88 overall
Indy's actual pick: Donald Brown, RB
At his best, Webb was one of the best cornerbacks in the NFL during the 2011 season, when he easily deserved a Pro Bowl nod. He hasn't been up to that level since -- injuries have been a culprit -- but he's certainly outperformed his draft slot and is expected back healthy for the Ravens in 2015.
(28.) Buffalo Bills: Michael Crabtree, WR
Crabtree's actual slot: No. 10 overall
Buffalo's actual pick: Eric Wood, C
He had one of the more inauspicious starts to a career I can recall, at least among those that don't involve an injury. Crabtree held out and missed the first five games of the 2009 season. He hasn't had a bad career, he just hasn't quite lived up the hype that surrounded his entry into the league. He has one 1,000-yard receiving season, and it'll be interesting to see if he has any more. We're still waiting to find out where he'll play in 2015.
(29.) New York Giants: T.J. Lang, G
Lang's actual slot: No. 109 overall
New York's actual pick: Hakeem Nicks, WR
He doesn't play a premium position, but Lang has been a good, dependable guard for a good offensive line for a while now, and he won't turn 28 until September, so there's plenty of good football (and winning) left for him in Green Bay, where he's signed through the end of 2016.
(30.) Tennessee Titans: Phil Loadholt, OT
Loadholt's actual slot: No. 54 overall
Tennessee's actual pick: Kenny Britt, WR
The utterly massive former Oklahoma star has put together a solid career, with 89 career starts and a sublime 2013 season. He's certainly got some good football left to play.
(31.) Arizona Cardinals: Brian Cushing, LB
Cushing's actual slot: No. 15 overall
Arizona's actual pick: Beanie Wells, RB
Remember that Cushing was the first of four linebackers drafted out of USC in 2009, which is pretty incredible (Matthews, Rey Maualuga and Kaluka Maiava are the others). He has been to a Pro Bowl, but has to drop here because injuries have robbed him of a lot of playing time over the past three seasons. He was able to play 14 games in 2014 (he played 12 total in the preceding two years) and hopefully can maintain good health in 2015.
(32.) Pittsburgh Steelers: Paul Kruger, OLB
Kruger's actual slot: No. 57 overall
Pittsburgh's actual pick: Evander Hood, DL
He didn't play a big role in Baltimore early in his career, in part because the depth chart didn't demand it, but Kruger has shown versatility and, particularly last season, the ability to get to the quarterback, as he's coming off a season where he notched 11.0 sacks.

[Hootie]

Matt Ryan and Vick went over Romo despite Romo having better stats (Vick was a big draw that year -- and was also excellent). Of course Brees was also selected.

Man, what an awful prediction that was.

The Romo hate is classic on this board.

[Saul Good]

Here's the Tim Duncan comparison.

Originally Posted by Short Leash Hootie

and that's the type of player Blake Griffin is capable of being...even right away. Which is why he's the #1 pick.

What makes you think he can't dominate right away? When was the last time college basketball saw a player as polished offensively in the low post as Blake Griffin?

Tim Duncan, right?

Duncan averaged 21 and 12 his rookie year.

If you think Griffin isn't NBA ready and doesn't have the moves to score points in the NBA...you are mistaken. That guy can flat out score against anyone. His skills around the basket are rare even on the pro level. He will be a focal point for opposing defenses right away.

Griffin went for 22.5 and 12.1 in his first season (after he missed his first season due to injury).

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

did Just Passin' By try and 'pwn' me by making fun of my 'Romo a pro bowler in 2011' comment?!

LMFAO

Romo in 2011:

4200 yards
31 TD's
10 INT's
67%
8 YPA

...

Yeah man. You really got me, there. That's like 'Hamas' Jenkins level pwning right there.

Do you not get the difference between trying to "pwn" you and suggesting you don't go too crazy, while noting that you were also wrong in the thread? Are you really that ****ing stupid, or are you just trying to use your own wrong guesses as part of your troll?

[TimBone]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Do you not get the difference between trying to "pwn" you and suggesting you don't go too crazy, while noting that you were also wrong in the thread? Are you really that ****ing stupid, or are you just trying to use your own wrong guesses as part of your troll?

Technically wrong, but the numbers are pro bowl caliber. I don't think that comment can be used against Hootie.

[Deberg_1990]

The best is when guys argue about Compensatory draft picks

[RealSNR]

I remember my first beer.

[TLO]

Yeah but Alex Smith tho.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by TimBone

Technically wrong, but the numbers are pro bowl caliber. I don't think that comment can be used against Hootie.

Of course it can. Hootie was wrong, and he was arrogant enough about it to toss in a "Bookmark this post right here" comment.

[GoChargers]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

it's my thread, it'll go wherever I steer it !

Yeah, and it's not hard to see why you'd want to steer away from a topic as reeruned as "a 2009 redraft shows we should never talk about a draft in advance, ever."

[TimBone]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Of course it can. Hootie was wrong.

Yes. You're right. A person of lesser faculties might look at it and say, "HE SAY'ED PRO BOWL. ROMO NO MAKE PRO BOWL AT ALL." But, a rational person might use a little bit of logic, and realize it would be kinda silly to use it against him since the guy did actually play well enough to be in the Pro Bowl.

My mistake.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by TimBone

Yes. You're right. A person of lesser faculties might look at it and say, "HE SAY'ED PRO BOWL. ROMO NO MAKE PRO BOWL AT ALL." But, a rational person might use a little bit of logic, and realize it would be kinda silly to use it against him since the guy did actually play well enough to be in the Pro Bowl.

My mistake.

No, a lesser person might be foolish enough to say "He didn't make the Pro Bowl, but he put up good numbers!".

A rational, sensible, person would say "You said he'd make the Pro Bowl. He didn't. You got it wrong.".

So, yes, your mistake.

[TimBone]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

No, a lesser person might be stupid enough to say "He didn't make the Pro Bowl, but he put up good numbers!".

A rational, sensible, person would say "You said he'd make the Pro Bowl. He didn't. You got it wrong.".

So, yes, your mistake.

I knew it was a waste of time replying to you. I knew it, but I ****ing did it anyways.
**** me.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

Yep. I learned after the Hali and Gholston shit to stop listening to the 4 horsemen and quoting that shit as fact to my buddies ... god they still make fun of me about Gholston. Thanks a lot, Hamas.

...of course, I also bought into the Geno ****ing bullshit (namely because milkman was even pimping him) which made me look like a reerun all over again

Yes, I was pimping Geno, but I also said that he is a guy that you should sit for a year, and might be better for 2.
I thought you would have a real chance of ruining him if he started right away.

But I'm one of the few people here that believes that rookie QBs, except for a select few, should always be sat for at least a year, even if they are the first overall pick.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by TimBone

I knew it was a waste of time replying to you. I knew it, but I ****ing did it anyways.
**** me.

The guy didn't make the Pro Bowl. Hootie claimed he would, so Hootie was wrong, and might want to keep that in mind while he's using that same thread to bash someone else for an error. I didn't call Hootie an idiot or anything for making his claim. I just pointed out that it was wrong. Instead of just leaving it alone, or acknowledging the obvious, you decided to ignore plain language.

I think we can both agree that Hootie knew Romo was in the same conference as Brees and Rodgers when he made his claim, so this wasn't some last minute surprise entry beating out Romo.

And before you go crazy with the "woe is me for replying to you", remember that you were the one with the crack about using logic, and making the snide comment about "a person of lesser faculties" in the process.

Logic:

Claim was the Romo would make the Pro Bowl
Romo did not make the Pro Bowl
Claim was erroneous

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Here's the Tim Duncan comparison.



Griffin went for 22.5 and 12.1 in his first season (after he missed his first season due to injury).

I knew I was comparing him as a prospect to Tim Duncan but it was SO long ago I forgot what context I was using at the time. Leave it to Hamas to try and "troll" me yesterday by bringing up a past debate that I crushed out of the park. Kinda like when you pointed out I called Chris Johnson the best running back in the NFL the year before he became CJ2K.

But again, the narrative on this board is I'm always wrong because I think Peyton is better than Tom.