why the 'draftniks' and 'armchair GM's' crack me up ...

[Hootie]

I was reading Kiper's redraft of 2009 on Reddit today and I'm going to post it here:

Here you go! I was going to post the whole thing originally, but it's a lot of text and I was worried people wouldn't want to have to scroll through it all to read other comments.
(1.) Detroit Lions: Matthew Stafford, QB
Stafford's actual slot: No. 1 overall
Detroit's actual pick: Stafford
He's been a good QB with bouts of greatness, and while you can call modern passing stats inflated, Stafford is on a pace to eclipse 50,000 passing yards in his career. He's safely past 21,000 yards and is barely 27 years old, and my guess is his best football is in front of him. He isn't the star at his position that the No. 2 pick on this list is, but Stafford could play another 10 good years.
(2.) St. Louis Rams: Clay Matthews, OLB
Matthews' actual slot: No. 26 overall
St. Louis' actual pick: Jason Smith, OT
Pete Carroll recently said he failed to recognize how great Matthews was while he coached him at USC, but Pete didn't exactly fail Matthews, who still went in Round 1 and has become a star. He has 61.0 sacks, and could have more if Green Bay didn't require his versatility. At 28, he shows no real signs of slowing, either.
(3.) Kansas City Chiefs: LeSean McCoy, RB
McCoy's actual slot: No. 53 overall
Kansas City's actual pick: Tyson Jackson, DE
I'm breaking my rules on positional value in having McCoy so high, but whom would you put ahead of him here? He leads the draft class in rushing yards with 6,792, and he's not exactly washed up, as he hasn't missed a game in either of the past two seasons, and won't even turn 27 until July. A 10,000-yard career wouldn't be a surprise.
(4.) Seattle Seahawks: Julian Edelman, WR
Edelman's actual slot: No. 232 overall
Seattle's actual pick: Aaron Curry, LB
I know, I know. Call me crazy, but remember this involves future production too, and Edelman has a great case there. He has 197 catches during the past two seasons combined, which is third in the NFL. He has a team-friendly deal through 2017, and you can make an argument that he's really just hitting his prime now, as he caught just 69 passes in his first four seasons as he slowly moved up the depth chart and made the adjustments needed after playing QB in college. I had a GM recently tell me Edelman is "the toughest cover in the NFL right now," and if you watched the Super Bowl you can see why. Maybe there's some recency bias here, but I won't lose sleep over it.
(5.) New York Jets: Vontae Davis, CB
Davis' actual slot: No. 25 overall
New York's actual pick: Mark Sanchez, QB
He has been one of the top few cover corners in the NFL during the past couple of seasons, and is showing no signs of slowing down. Based on that alone, he's worth plenty. He's second among players in this draft class with 17 career INTs, but no corner from the 2009 draft is currently at Davis' level. He and Darrelle Revis would have been a decent pair.
(6.) Cincinnati Bengals: Alex Mack, C
Mack's actual slot: No. 21 overall
Cincinnati's actual pick: Andre Smith, OT
He was a starter from day one, and has quietly been one of the best centers in the league every single year since 2009. When he was injured in 2014 it totally derailed the Cleveland run game. It seems crazy to see a center go this high, but Mack went pretty high in the actual draft, too.
(7.) Oakland Raiders: Mike Wallace, WR
Wallace's actual slot: No. 84 overall
Oakland's actual pick: Darrius Heyward-Bey, WR
Wallace, who leads the 2009 draft class in both receptions (375) and yards (5,834), is easily one of the top steals in the class, but loses a little ground (namely to Edelman) because you have to wonder if we've already seen the best of him. Since his breakout 2010 season where he became the top deep threat in the league not named Calvin Johnson, he hasn't quite been the same. Now he has a chance to become the No. 1 option for the emerging Teddy Bridgewater. It's funny, but Wallace's skill set totally fits the old Raiders draft profile, too.
(8.) Jacksonville Jaguars: Arian Foster, RB
Foster's actual slot: Undrafted
Jacksonville's actual pick: Eugene Monroe, OT
Easily the top steal of 2009, Foster went undrafted, falling on injury questions, fumble issues and (of course) positional value. (All of those things can of course be disputed -- I'm just stating what the reality was from the team perspective at the time.) He's second only to McCoy in rushing yards for this class (6,309) and also has more than 2,000 receiving yards. Foster dips slightly on future potential, having missed time in each of the past two seasons.
(9.) Green Bay Packers: Sebastian Vollmer, OT
Vollmer's actual slot: No. 58 overall
Green Bay's actual pick: B.J. Raji, DT
The pride of Dusseldorf has dealt with some injuries, but when healthy, he's among the best right tackles in the league, and has been consistent in his performance throughout his career. He gets bonus points for being such a crucial part of a winner and because No. 12 hasn't missed any time during his tenure. (Tom Brady played only one game in 2008, the season before Vollmer was drafted.)
(10). San Francisco 49ers: Max Unger, C
Unger's actual slot: No. 49 overall
San Francisco's actual pick: Michael Crabtree, WR
The third center drafted in this class, Unger might be the best of them -- when healthy. He has now missed significant time in two seasons -- including last year -- but when he's right, he's an All-Pro caliber player, which is why he was part of the compensation to New Orleans to bring Jimmy Graham to Seattle this offseason.
(11.) Buffalo Bills: Michael Bennett, DE
Bennett's actual slot: Undrafted
Buffalo's actual pick: Aaron Maybin, DE
Overlooked out of Texas A&M, where he had just 6.5 sacks in his four years, Bennett moves up here because he was an outstanding player the past two seasons for Seattle, showing great versatility during that time as Pete Carroll and Dan Quinn moved him all over. Bennett appears to have a lot of good football left, which bumps him up, too.
(12.) Denver Broncos: Louis Vasquez, OT
Vazquez's actual slot: No. 78 overall
Denver's actual pick: Knowshon Moreno, RB
The former Texas Tech star may not play a premium position, but he has been one of the best guards in the NFL since he entered the league, an All-Pro who left San Diego for Denver and has been outstanding for the Broncos. He's still just 27, so he's got plenty to offer in the years to come.
(13.) Washington Redskins: Brian Orakpo, OLB
Orakpo's actual slot: No. 13 overall
Washington's actual pick: Orakpo
While he has been dogged by injuries in two of the past three seasons, I'd like to think Orakpo can get back to 100 percent and add to an impressive start to his career. He's second to Matthews in this class with 40.0 career sacks, has been to three Pro Bowls -- when healthy, that's where he can be -- and the Titans have bet that he'll continue to get the to the QB.
(14.) New Orleans Saints: DeAndre Levy, LB
Levy's actual slot: No. 76 overall
New Orleans' actual pick: Malcolm Jenkins, DB
This spot might surprise some of you, but this is a fact: Levy has been one of the best linebackers in the NFL over the past two seasons, and the 27-year-old Wisconsin product appears to be just hitting his stride, so I could see him add at least a few more really good seasons. He trailed only Luke Kuechly in tackles last season (153 to 151) and should continue to be a rangy tackling machine. (He's second in the draft class in tackles for his career.)
(15.) Houston Texans: Jeremy Maclin, WR
Maclin's actual slot: No. 19 overall
Houston's actual pick: Brian Cushing, LB
Had he not missed the entire 2013 season with a knee injury, Maclin would probably be leading the 2009 draft class in receiving yards, or at least be pretty close. He drops a bit because 2014 was actually his first season with more than 1,000 yards receiving, and because it's hard to assume he'll have an uptick in production in Kansas City. But he'll certainly be the No. 1 threat in that offense.
(16.) San Diego Chargers: Jairus Byrd, S
Byrd's actual slot: No. 42 overall
San Diego's actual pick: Larry English, OLB
He hasn't been fully healthy in either of the past two seasons, and there have been plenty of comments made about the big contract New Orleans gave him, but Byrd at 100 percent has been one of the best cover safeties in the NFL, elected to three Pro Bowls, and plenty worth the cash. He leads the draft class in INTs (22) and hopefully returns to peak form.
(17.) Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Connor Barwin, OLB
Barwin's actual slot: No. 46 overall
Tampa Bay's actual pick: Josh Freeman, QB
It's possible Barwin belongs higher coming off a 14.5-sack season, so there's some good football ahead of him. Barwin didn't see much of the field over his first two seasons, and he has been moved around over the past four years as he has established himself, but more of what we saw in 2014 will push him up.
(18.) Denver Broncos: Terrance Knighton, DT
Knighton's actual slot: No. 72 overall
Denver's actual pick: Robert Ayers, DE
Knighton was underrated early in his career as he played well for some bad teams in Jacksonville. He's not going to give you 900 snaps per season, but he's one of the better rotation defenders you'll find for the interior of the D-line and was useful in Denver over the past two seasons. He's now headed to D.C.
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[–]patsfanthrowaway[S] 6 points 1 day ago
(19.) Philadelphia Eagles: Malcolm Jenkins, DB
Jenkins' actual slot: No. 14 overall
Philadelphia's actual pick: Jeremy Maclin, WR
Never a star, Jenkins has been moved around, and was solid last year for Philadelphia, playing a somewhat incredible 1,200 snaps. I give him a slight bump here on future production as he's signed in Philadelphia at a reasonable number for two more seasons and would still be only 29 when that deal is done.
(20.) Detroit Lions: James Laurinaitis, LB
Laurinaitis' actual slot: No. 35 overall
Detroit's actual pick: Brandon Pettigrew, TE
One of the more recognizable defensive players in the 2009 draft, Laurinaitis has never been a star at the NFL level, but he's also never really come off the field, and durability is a big factor in how you're perceived in this league. He's started 96 of a possible 96 games -- with no end in sight -- and he has 593 total tackles; nobody else in the class has more than 438.
(21.) Cleveland Browns: Hakeem Nicks, WR
Nicks' actual slot: No. 29 overall
Cleveland's actual pick: Alex Mack, C
Nagging injuries have kept him from maintaining what he was in 2010 and 2011, when he had back-to-back 1,000-yard seasons, and the question now is whether Nicks has any good football left. He's No. 2 in the class in both receptions (349) and receiving yardage (5,027), but the future is cloudy right now.
(22.) Minnesota Vikings: Glover Quin, S
Quin's actual slot: No. 112 overall
Minnesota's actual pick: Percy Harvin, WR
He's not a star, but Quin is solidly above average and beyond that when it comes to dependability. Since 2010, Quin has started 80 of a possible 80 games and was a big part of Detroit's defense making a big statistical jump in 2014.
(23.) Baltimore Ravens: Michael Oher, OT
Oher's actual slot: No. 23 overall
Baltimore's actual pick: Oher
Oher will be playing for his third franchise in 2015, as the Panthers will give him a chance to handle left tackle. While he has started 91 NFL games, Oher has mostly hovered in the range of serviceable, and has never reached star status, something that was probably unfairly assumed for him after he became such a big literary and Hollywood subject. But he has been healthy and, in the context of draft reality, I'd never call him a letdown.
(24.) Atlanta Falcons: William Moore, S
Moore's actual slot: No. 55 overall
Atlanta's actual pick: Peria Jerry, DT
Moore lost much of the 2014 season with a shoulder injury, but has made a Pro Bowl and was a reasonably dependable starter for the previous four seasons. If healthy, he should get back to that form in 2015.
(25.) Miami Dolphins: Percy Harvin, WR
Harvin's actual slot: No. 22 overall
Miami's actual pick: Vontae Davis, CB
Harvin's name seems to inspire a lot of buzz, which isn't unfair if you saw him in his prime with the ball in his hands. But the reality is he hasn't been a big part of an NFL offense since the 2012 season, and he played in only nine games that year. He's still only 26 years old, but he'll be with his fourth franchise in 2015. Harvin does have an All-Pro season on his résumé -- as a return man in 2009.
(26.) Green Bay Packers: Brandon Pettigrew, TE
Pettigrew's actual slot: No. 20 overall
Green Bay's actual pick: Clay Matthews, OLB
Sure, he's an enigmatic talent who most Lions fans would say hasn't lived up to the draft-day hype, but Pettigrew has caught 294 passes (a full 60 more than any other TE in the draft) and should have some good football left, with at least one more year in Detroit.
(27.) Indianapolis Colts: Lardarius Webb, CB
Webb's actual slot: No. 88 overall
Indy's actual pick: Donald Brown, RB
At his best, Webb was one of the best cornerbacks in the NFL during the 2011 season, when he easily deserved a Pro Bowl nod. He hasn't been up to that level since -- injuries have been a culprit -- but he's certainly outperformed his draft slot and is expected back healthy for the Ravens in 2015.
(28.) Buffalo Bills: Michael Crabtree, WR
Crabtree's actual slot: No. 10 overall
Buffalo's actual pick: Eric Wood, C
He had one of the more inauspicious starts to a career I can recall, at least among those that don't involve an injury. Crabtree held out and missed the first five games of the 2009 season. He hasn't had a bad career, he just hasn't quite lived up the hype that surrounded his entry into the league. He has one 1,000-yard receiving season, and it'll be interesting to see if he has any more. We're still waiting to find out where he'll play in 2015.
(29.) New York Giants: T.J. Lang, G
Lang's actual slot: No. 109 overall
New York's actual pick: Hakeem Nicks, WR
He doesn't play a premium position, but Lang has been a good, dependable guard for a good offensive line for a while now, and he won't turn 28 until September, so there's plenty of good football (and winning) left for him in Green Bay, where he's signed through the end of 2016.
(30.) Tennessee Titans: Phil Loadholt, OT
Loadholt's actual slot: No. 54 overall
Tennessee's actual pick: Kenny Britt, WR
The utterly massive former Oklahoma star has put together a solid career, with 89 career starts and a sublime 2013 season. He's certainly got some good football left to play.
(31.) Arizona Cardinals: Brian Cushing, LB
Cushing's actual slot: No. 15 overall
Arizona's actual pick: Beanie Wells, RB
Remember that Cushing was the first of four linebackers drafted out of USC in 2009, which is pretty incredible (Matthews, Rey Maualuga and Kaluka Maiava are the others). He has been to a Pro Bowl, but has to drop here because injuries have robbed him of a lot of playing time over the past three seasons. He was able to play 14 games in 2014 (he played 12 total in the preceding two years) and hopefully can maintain good health in 2015.
(32.) Pittsburgh Steelers: Paul Kruger, OLB
Kruger's actual slot: No. 57 overall
Pittsburgh's actual pick: Evander Hood, DL
He didn't play a big role in Baltimore early in his career, in part because the depth chart didn't demand it, but Kruger has shown versatility and, particularly last season, the ability to get to the quarterback, as he's coming off a season where he notched 11.0 sacks.

[Eleazar]

Based on my observations on this board over the years, I think the talking heads on TV only have about half a clue, and the CP draftniks aspire to that.

[Hootie]

basically, if you can find 2 quality players per draft with another role player it was a good draft for an organization

but on ChiefsPlanet, taking Jake O'Connell in the 7th round (after trading a future 7th for him!) is cause for a total site meltdown !

trading two whole 2nd round picks for a decent starting QB is Armageddon! We coulda landed Patrick Chung and Brandon Jackson with those picks!

[Hootie]

by the way

there were more undrafted players that made this redraft than top 10 picks

in the entire 1st round redraft, only Stafford and Crabtree were top 10 picks that were redrafted in the 1st round ... and both of those guys are pretty overrated.

Tyson Jackson was not a fun pick, by any means, but I guess BossMayock would've taken Aaron Curry or Julian Edelman or something.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

by the way

there were more undrafted players that made this redraft than top 10 picks

in the entire 1st round redraft, only Stafford and Crabtree were top 10 picks that were redrafted in the 1st round ... and both of those guys are pretty overrated.

Tyson Jackson was not a fun pick, by any means, but I guess BossMayock would've taken Aaron Curry or Julian Edelman or something.

Everybody knows I was I love with Orakpo.

Mecca told me he would rather get raped by a toilet brush than draft him.

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Everybody knows I was I love with Orakpo.

Mecca told me he would rather get raped by a toilet brush than draft him.

From the same crowd that brought you ChiefsPlanet draft heroes like Jimmy Clausen, Mark Sanchez, Vernon Gholston, etc etc

[BossChief]

Hey everybody!! Look at me!!! Look at me!!

/hootie

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Hey everybody!! Look at me!!! Look at me!!

/hootie

Well, yes. It is a hootie thread.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Hey everybody!! Look at me!!! Look at me!!

/hootie

He's like the kid in middle school who wasn't popular but tried to do anything possible to fit in.

Not sure why this guy has to try to prove himself to everyone. Nobody is right 100% of the time.

Hell I love talking about the draft bc it's fun.

[BigMeatballDave]

Originally Posted by RunKC

He's like the kid in middle school who wasn't popular but tried to do anything possible to fit in.

Not sure why this guy has to try to prove himself to everyone. Nobody is right 100% of the time.

Hell I love talking about the draft bc it's fun.

You weren't around for Mecca. He was the Phil McGraw of drafts...

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by BigMeatballDave

You weren't around for Mecca. He was the Phil McGraw of drafts...

He was a corner stone of the original 4 horsemen...

Dane
Hamas
OTWP58
Mecca


It didn't get any better than that...

[Just Passin' By]

Hootie with another troll thread?

Cue Claude Rains.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I said this while he was at OU. It was a lot closer than 'Hamas' and his minions who were saying Blake would be a nobody at the NBA level.

Regardless, it was a real funny way of trying to bash me for being a "bandwagoner" yesterday. Apparently if you watch guys in college basketball and conclude things like, "my God, that guy is going to be a superstar as a pro!" that makes you a fan of that person's collegiate team and then you are suddenly a bandwagon jumper.

I wish search still worked.

You aren't allowed to say things like that unless you're a GM, remember?

[DJ's left nut]

Man - give Kiper the benefit of hindsight and he still dicks up the Chiefs pick.

Why the hell would they ever take McCoy (when he acknowledges that contract and future production matter and the Chiefs have an okay RB of their own) when Vonte Davis was on the board?

National draft guys just aren't worth the effort.

[Hootie]

well Mecca also turned an entire offseason into bashing the Chiefs for going to a 3-4 and saying Tamba Hali would NEVER work as a rushbacker in the 3-4 because his hips were too stiff