Movies and TV The Hobbit - Page 27

Deberg_1990 · 03-26-2013, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth

First off, let me state I've never read the books.
Second, I know this is fantasy world.

But I just don't understand the powers of Gandolf.

One minute he can hold up his staff and blast hundreds of bad guys away in one shot of light, and the next minute he is running like a pussy from some goblins. Did his mana pool need to regenerate? Is there downtime on certain spells?

In the hobbit, he calls in a bunch of birds to come lift them off away from danger....

Why didn't Gandalf call the birds from get go, so they could've made their way to the dwarf mountain a shit load faster while avoiding all of that danger?
Why did the birds drop them off on a cliff that was still miles away from their destination instead of taking them closer?

I suppose with my logic, there would be a gazillion books.... but that kind of stuff bothers me.

Your applying too much logic. : )

Amnorix · 03-26-2013, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth

One minute he can hold up his staff and blast hundreds of bad guys away in one shot of light, and the next minute he is running like a pussy from some goblins. Did his mana pool need to regenerate? Is there downtime on certain spells?

errr...wait -- when does he blast hundreds of bad guys away in one shot of light?

The short of the short of the answer is that Gandalf is a Maia, basically a demi-god, similar in KIND (but not necessarily power) to Sauron, the Balrogs and the other wizards. His "power" is much more in the nature of being very wise and being able to lift the spirits of those who have little/no hope. This isn't Harry Potter or D&D, where wizards can blow stuff up. Gandalf does have a powerful magic ring which was given to him which is attuned to fire, which gives him much more control/ability in that area than might otherwise be the case.

Quote:

Why didn't Gandalf call the birds from get go, so they could've made their way to the dwarf mountain a shit load faster while avoiding all of that danger?
Why did the birds drop them off on a cliff that was still miles away from their destination instead of taking them closer?

I suppose with my logic, there would be a gazillion books.... but that kind of stuff bothers me.

Yes, well, you're not the first to think of that...

Molitoth · 03-26-2013, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

errr...wait -- when does he blast hundreds of bad guys away in one shot of light?

The short of the short of the answer is that Gandalf is a Maia, basically a demi-god, similar in KIND (but not necessarily power) to Sauron, the Balrogs and the other wizards. His "power" is much more in the nature of being very wise and being able to lift the spirits of those who have little/no hope. This isn't Harry Potter or D&D, where wizards can blow stuff up. Gandalf does have a powerful magic ring which was given to him which is attuned to fire, which gives him much more control/ability in that area than might otherwise be the case.

Yes, well, you're not the first to think of that...

Well, he didn't blast hundreds away (maybe it was a dozen or so)?, I was exaturating. Nonetheless, the movies don't do a good job at explaining Gandalfs power, (Unless I missed something). I admit, I haven't watched the LOTR trilogy in years.

I suppose the books fill some of the voids I've had in understanding some movie parts.

That little video was pretty cool too.

Deberg_1990 · 03-26-2013, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth

Well, he didn't blast hundreds away (maybe it was a dozen or so)?, I was exaturating. Nonetheless, the movies don't do a good job at explaining Gandalfs power, (Unless I missed something). I admit, I haven't watched the LOTR trilogy in years.

I suppose the books fill some of the voids I've had in understanding some movie parts.

That little video was pretty cool too.

yea, i havent watched them in awhile either, but it seems like Gandalf the white was more powerful than the grey?

Amnorix · 03-26-2013, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

yea, i havent watched them in awhile either, but it seems like Gandalf the white was more powerful than the grey?

Yes, without question. The real question is how?

What happened in the immediate aftermath of Gandalf battling the Balrog is hard to understand/explain, and open to interpretation. The way I usually explain it is that Gandalf also died (at least his body did -- he's a demi-God -- he's older than the planet he's walking on) -- and when his spirit returned to the West, the Gods pretty much picked him up, brushed him off, made him a bit more powerful (dont' ask how, other than making him the head of the Order of Wizards) and sent him back. Like Tom Bombadil (who is in the books, but not the movies), there's really no good explanation, but that's how I think of it.

The idea of the body of a god/demigod (Valar/Maiar is the formal name) beign lost but the spirit continuing appears repeatedly in the books. Sauron loses his body (which was attractive and used to fool men/elves) in the drowning of Numenor. He then takes shape again during the Second Age, before he is overthrown by Men and Elves (the opening scene of the Lord of the Rings movies, when you see his ring cut from his hand. Likewise, Morgoth himself was previously able to take whatever physical form he wished, but ultimately lost that power and became trapped, if you will, in the body that he had.

Note also that Sauron never had ANY actual physical manifestation in the Lord of the Rings books. In the movie he is this big, physical glowing Eye. In the books, the Eye is his SYMBOL only, and he has no physical shape at all. Presumably, if he had been able to recover the One Ring, which held much of his power, he could perhaps have physically manifested again. Until then, in the books at least, it is his SPIRIT that is active in the world, controlling his minions, etc.

Amnorix · 03-26-2013, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth

Well, he didn't blast hundreds away (maybe it was a dozen or so)?, I was exaturating. Nonetheless, the movies don't do a good job at explaining Gandalfs power, (Unless I missed something). I admit, I haven't watched the LOTR trilogy in years.

I suppose the books fill some of the voids I've had in understanding some movie parts.

That little video was pretty cool too.

Actually, the books are very vague about the "magical" powers of both elves and wizards. Some are easy and obvious -- talking to animals, an ability to persuade others (especially Saruman, but also Gandalf, in terms of lifting their spirits), and deep knowledge/understanding/wisdom (not really a power).

But Melian the maia (a demi-god similar to Gandalf/Sauron) literally "hid" an entire kingdom from the bad guys. They would try to enter, get really confused, basically, and wander out again, without penetrating the borders. Much of the elves' "power" is in growing things and nature -- nothing to do with war or fighting at all.

What isn't covered in the movies at all is that Elves and wizards would exert their power through singing. Luthien, the beautiful elf, sang and danced in such a way that it made Morgoth, a full blown God (the master of Sauron and the Balrogs and creator of Orcs and Dragons) and all his followers fall asleep, so that she and Beren could steal a Silmaril and escape.

But yes, very, very little "flash-bang" kind of magic. VERY little.

Frosty · 03-26-2013, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth

Why did the birds drop them off on a cliff that was still miles away from their destination instead of taking them closer?

I don't know about the earlier part but the Eagles wouldn't go closer because they are afraid of the dragon.

Frosty · 03-26-2013, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosty

I don't know about the earlier part but the Eagles wouldn't go closer because they are afraid of the dragon.

Also, in the book, Gandalf doesn't summon the Eagles. They just happen by and check out what the commotion is about. They save Gandalf and the dwarves and take them back to the Eagles' airie and give them food but kind of stay aloof from the dwarves. It's implied in the book that they saved them because the Eagles hate the Goblins and not because they love dwarves. Flying with a load across Mirkwood into dangerous dragon territory would be a lot to ask. They end up just sending the dwarves on their way from that point.

However, the Eagles do present a major plot hole in the way they are portrayed in both the LoTR and The Hobbit.

**Dave Lane** · 03-26-2013, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosty

I don't know about the earlier part but the Eagles wouldn't go closer because they are afraid of the dragon.

And I believe in the book he has to be close to the Misty Mountains to call them and there is a delay while the moth or whatever creature he picks flies to the eagles and they come for pick up.

**Fire Me Boy!** · 03-26-2013, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth

First off, let me state I've never read the books.
Second, I know this is fantasy world.

But I just don't understand the powers of Gandolf.

One minute he can hold up his staff and blast hundreds of bad guys away in one shot of light, and the next minute he is running like a pussy from some goblins. Did his mana pool need to regenerate? Is there downtime on certain spells?

In the hobbit, he calls in a bunch of birds to come lift them off away from danger....

Why didn't Gandalf call the birds from get go, so they could've made their way to the dwarf mountain a shit load faster while avoiding all of that danger?
Why did the birds drop them off on a cliff that was still miles away from their destination instead of taking them closer?

I suppose with my logic, there would be a gazillion books.... but that kind of stuff bothers me.

Because that would be a terrible book.

Brock · 03-26-2013, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth

First off, let me state I've never read the books.
Second, I know this is fantasy world.

But I just don't understand the powers of Gandolf.

One minute he can hold up his staff and blast hundreds of bad guys away in one shot of light, and the next minute he is running like a pussy from some goblins. Did his mana pool need to regenerate? Is there downtime on certain spells?

In the hobbit, he calls in a bunch of birds to come lift them off away from danger....

Why didn't Gandalf call the birds from get go, so they could've made their way to the dwarf mountain a shit load faster while avoiding all of that danger?
Why did the birds drop them off on a cliff that was still miles away from their destination instead of taking them closer?

I suppose with my logic, there would be a gazillion books.... but that kind of stuff bothers me.

It's a kid's book. Now made into a kid's movie.

**The Franchise** · 03-26-2013, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth

First off, let me state I've never read the books.
Second, I know this is fantasy world.

But I just don't understand the powers of Gandolf.

One minute he can hold up his staff and blast hundreds of bad guys away in one shot of light, and the next minute he is running like a pussy from some goblins. Did his mana pool need to regenerate? Is there downtime on certain spells?

In the hobbit, he calls in a bunch of birds to come lift them off away from danger....

Why didn't Gandalf call the birds from get go, so they could've made their way to the dwarf mountain a shit load faster while avoiding all of that danger?
Why did the birds drop them off on a cliff that was still miles away from their destination instead of taking them closer?

I suppose with my logic, there wouldn't be a gazillion books.... but that kind of stuff bothers me.

You don't make millions of dollars off of a 20 page book.

**Lzen** · 04-01-2013, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence

You don't make millions of dollars off of a 20 page book.

**The Franchise** · 04-01-2013, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lzen

He was talking about how the books could have been shorter if they had cut out a bunch of unnecessary stuff.

Deberg_1990 · 03-26-2013, 08:51 AM

Was the white Orc thing chasing them around even in the book?

03-26-2013, 08:51 AM	#15
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $3864454	Was the white Orc thing chasing them around even in the book? __________________ Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning: Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down. One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
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