The Dark Knight Rises *Spoilers* Thread

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by SLAG

Can you explain this to me a bit more

What was the Twist?

The fact that Bruce was with Cat Woman? The Fact that he didn't die?

Just a little confused

Yeah, that. The twist was that Wayne somehow didn't die when piloting the nuke out to sea.

Originally Posted by SLAG

I really enjoyed the bane story line - I am glad he broke batman's back but I think bruce healed a bit quickly.

I had a small qualm with Bane's voice - it sounded too clear quality wise - for being muffled - it seemed dubbed over to me - does this make sense

They went back in post-production and re-did Tom Hardy's lines, iirc. There were a couple of spots in the movie where Hardy's movements/body language/eyes didn't match up to the dubbed lines, but only a couple.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

Yeah, that. The twist was that Wayne somehow didn't die when piloting the nuke out to sea.

Someone else may already have indicated this, but Wayne fixed the auto-pilot on the thing. There was a reference afterwards to, errr, Morgan Freeman's character looking into the previously broken auto-pilot that he had mentioned someone with more free time than he had (i.e. Wayne) should fix, and he got a report back that it had been fixed six months ago.

So apparently long before the thing blew, he set the autopilot and jumped out.

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

So apparently long before the thing blew, he set the autopilot and jumped out.

If I'm not mistaken though...We see a shot of him still in the Batwing just 5 seconds before the bomb detonates.

How could he have jumped out and escaped the blast radius with only 5 seconds to spare?

[Fire Me Boy!]

Originally Posted by Micjones

If I'm not mistaken though...We see a shot of him still in the Batwing just 5 seconds before the bomb detonates.

How could he have jumped out and escaped the blast radius with only 5 seconds to spare?

When he fixed the Bat autopilot, he also installed an impenetrable outer shell, which protected him from the blast.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

Originally Posted by Micjones

If I'm not mistaken though...We see a shot of him still in the Batwing just 5 seconds before the bomb detonates.

How could he have jumped out and escaped the blast radius with only 5 seconds to spare?

you saw him in A Bat. Not THE Bat.

[DBOSHO]

The scene where bane fought batman and broke his back was almost sad to watch. It was unbelievable to see batman practically powerless.

[mdchiefsfan]

Originally Posted by DBOSHO

The scene where bane fought batman and broke his back was almost sad to watch. It was unbelievable to see batman practically powerless.

"The shadows betray you, because they work for me."

Awesome line and interaction.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by DBOSHO

The scene where bane fought batman and broke his back was almost sad to watch. It was unbelievable to see batman practically powerless.

Almost like watching your dog die.

[Reaper16]

Of course it was a cheap shot. You'd get a much better shot, one that actually makes sense, if you paid more for it. (I can see your argument as to how BB puts characters in service of the plot. But TDKR puts characters in service of plot twists. That's a different thing)

[Reaper16]

My biggest beef with the film re: thing-being-included-only-to-set-up-twists is the whole pit prison deal. It seemed to be doing 2 things: 1.) show how tough Bane was because he alone escaped, and 2.) teach Bruce that if he no longer fears death then he can save Gotham from Bane (which would reinforce the sacrificing-himself-by-flying-the-nuke-out-to-sea bit, which was somewhat undone by the cop-out reveal that he somehow lived and he and Selina got clean slates and moved to Italy.

But the twist that it was Talia that escaped, not Bane, does harm to the film, IMO. Because...why was Bane tough then? Or smart? Bane couldn't figure out -- like I'm sure many of us did very quickly into the prison scenes -- that the rope was the only thing preventing you from escaping. He didn't escape through some sheer force of will. He was rescued, in fact (albeit after contracting whatever painful plague thing he got).

So Bane goes down like the chump that he was (accidentally) revealed to be as soon as Bruce next encounters him. Bruce doesn't learn any secret to beating Bane, because that lesson about fear-of-death doesn't end up applying to anything.

It all was working for me as the film went along...until the needless twist.

[mdchiefsfan]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

My biggest beef with the film re: thing-being-included-only-to-set-up-twists is the whole pit prison deal. It seemed to be doing 2 things: 1.) show how tough Bane was because he alone escaped, and 2.) teach Bruce that if he no longer fears death then he can save Gotham from Bane (which would reinforce the sacrificing-himself-by-flying-the-nuke-out-to-sea bit, which was somewhat undone by the cop-out reveal that he somehow lived and he and Selina got clean slates and moved to Italy.

But the twist that it was Talia that escaped, not Bane, does harm to the film, IMO. Because...why was Bane tough then? Or smart? Bane couldn't figure out -- like I'm sure many of us did very quickly into the prison scenes -- that the rope was the only thing preventing you from escaping. He didn't escape through some sheer force of will. He was rescued, in fact (albeit after contracting whatever painful plague thing he got).

So Bane goes down like the chump that he was (accidentally) revealed to be as soon as Bruce next encounters him. Bruce doesn't learn any secret to beating Bane, because that lesson about fear-of-death doesn't end up applying to anything.

It all was working for me as the film went along...until the needless twist.

I thought the lesson learned in the prison was to have a healthy fear of death. That fear of dying enabled Bruce (minus the rope) to climb out of the prison. His whole life was about suppressing and fighting fear with fear I figured he had become immune to fear, hence him becoming a recluse, aching to be Batman again. The lesson he learned in the prison enabled him to move on and live life as Bruce Wayne.

That was my take at least.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan

I thought the lesson learned in the prison was to have a healthy fear of death. That fear of dying enabled Bruce (minus the rope) to climb out of the prison. His whole life was about suppressing and fighting fear with fear I figured he had become immune to fear, hence him becoming a recluse, aching to be Batman again. The lesson he learned in the prison enabled him to move on and live life as Bruce Wayne.

That was my take at least.

Losing a fear of death allows him to move on from being Batman? That's a solid take. Makes sense.

[mdchiefsfan]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

Losing a fear of death allows him to move on from being Batman? That's a solid take. Makes sense.

I wouldn't say losing fear of death. I would say regaining his fear of death. The League of Shadows groomed him to be the perfect mercenary, to be without fear which, in turn, made him Batman. To return to humanity, as Bruce Wayne, he needed that fear re-established.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan

I wouldn't say losing fear of death. I would say regaining his fear of death. The League of Shadows groomed him to be the perfect mercenary, to be without fear which, in turn, made him Batman. To return to humanity, as Bruce Wayne, he needed that fear re-established.

Oh. But...that doesn't jibe with the scene that I saw last night. Unless I misheard some key bit of dialogue. Because it seems like you'd wear that rope because you were afraid of dying (from a slip of the foot or from not making that leap. Because you, in that prison, will have seen many people try and fail, and so you'll want a safety precaution).

Bruce even says in the prison how he's afraid of x, y, and z. That was before he learned the stuff that allowed him to get out of the pit.

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

My biggest beef with the film re: thing-being-included-only-to-set-up-twists is the whole pit prison deal. It seemed to be doing 2 things: 1.) show how tough Bane was because he alone escaped, and 2.) teach Bruce that if he no longer fears death then he can save Gotham from Bane (which would reinforce the sacrificing-himself-by-flying-the-nuke-out-to-sea bit, which was somewhat undone by the cop-out reveal that he somehow lived and he and Selina got clean slates and moved to Italy.

But the twist that it was Talia that escaped, not Bane, does harm to the film, IMO. Because...why was Bane tough then? Or smart? Bane couldn't figure out -- like I'm sure many of us did very quickly into the prison scenes -- that the rope was the only thing preventing you from escaping. He didn't escape through some sheer force of will. He was rescued, in fact (albeit after contracting whatever painful plague thing he got).

So Bane goes down like the chump that he was (accidentally) revealed to be as soon as Bruce next encounters him. Bruce doesn't learn any secret to beating Bane, because that lesson about fear-of-death doesn't end up applying to anything.

It all was working for me as the film went along...until the needless twist.

I think one big thing to consider here is that Bruce wasn't learning how to conquer his fear of death. He'd already done that.

He was learning how important fear is. The issue is he needed the fear back. I think that plays pretty heavily into his escape. Perhaps not so heavily into defeating Bane, I'll grant you. But I don't think it was entirely pointless or inconsequential.

The movie, to me, seemed to be like Batman Begins in reverse. The whole second half was more about Bruce vs himself than Batman vs Bane. Not arguing that as a strength or a weakness, just making an observation.

I'm fine with Bane being muscle and less brains. And in the end Batman still wasn't going to be able to defeat Bane on his own. But, again, I'm not sure that's what it was about.

And the Breaking Bad crack was just that. It was a crack. Me making fun of myself more than anything. Your comment sounded similar to some of mine re: that show. And I don't think it's worlds apart, frankly. We've seen characters on BB acting completely out of character for the sake of plot, and sometimes, even plot "twists."