Geno Smith: A Tale in Accuracy

[suds79]

Originally Posted by PGM

I wouldn't mind Tavon coming to KC too and bringing that sweet YAC with him as well.

This.

Tavon IMO is the Russel Wilson of WRs in this class. Incredible talent. But will drop due to size.

If you watched WV this year, it was clear that Tavon Austin was the best player on that team. And I'm a Geno guy.

I take Geno 1 and Tavon with that 2nd rounder in a second if he's on the board.

[Sully]

Originally Posted by hometeam

Thats exactly where the 'OMG THEY HAD X YAC' argument comes in. People like to use that as an argument AGAINST Geno. (LOL!) Yes his guys had lots of YAC (don't all good QB's do that?) If your guys have good YAC that shows right there you are putting the ball where they can make a play after the catch.

It might say that, but not definitely. Bubble and tunnel screens don't necessarily tell that. Passes to seams of zones don't necessarily tell that.
I think it's good evidence, but not necessarily proof of that type of accuracy.

[hometeam]

Originally Posted by Sully

It might say that, but not definitely. Bubble and tunnel screens don't necessarily tell that. Passes to seams of zones don't necessarily tell that.
I think it's good evidence, but not necessarily proof of that type of accuracy.

Its anecdotal evidence certainly. I dont think there is a good way to tie YAC and ball placement together scientifically, just because of the variables involved in catching and running. From ball position/height/rotation/angle/air speed/defender position/receiver speed/hand size/ on and on and on.

[KCrockaholic]

The thing about YAC when it came to Geno was that he did have one of, if not the most electric YAC WR in the nation this year and during his career. Tavon Austin was always there. WV used plenty of slip screens and underneath routes to get Austin open in space. What OC wouldn't want to just get the ball into the hands of Austin?

As good as Austin and Bailey were, Geno also did his part, and his OL was pretty poor this year. One thing I'm interested in seeing is what Geno can do with a big 6'2 or 6'3 WR in the NFL. He's never had a a big guy to throw to so he's had to be a little more accurate with his ball placement.

[tk13]

This is why Geno should be drafted. I think people make off base comparisons to this guy and that guy... but really what sets Geno apart is his accuracy. You put him in a system that plays to his strengths and do it well, he is remarkably accurate.

[hometeam]

Originally Posted by tk13

This is why Geno should be drafted. I think people may way too many off base comparisons to this guy and that guy... but really what sets Geno apart is his accuracy. You put him in a system that plays to his strengths and do it well, he is remarkably accurate.

Exactly. WCO is all about short/mid routes with some over the top stuff to mix it up. Geno is perfect for us.. its DESTINY

[Sully]

Originally Posted by hometeam

Its anecdotal evidence certainly. I dont think there is a good way to tie YAC and ball placement together scientifically, just because of the variables involved in catching and running. From ball position/height/rotation/angle/air speed/defender position/receiver speed/hand size/ on and on and on.

I think that's exactly what NFL scouts will spend hours looking at. On a fade, is he putting the ball high outside? One a short slant, is the ball low in front? Where on "the clock" is the ball and how consistent is he at putting it in the right place.
His decision-making seems great. His arm seems average to a hair above average. Leadership/smarts and that type of accuracy are going to be, IMO, what separates him.

[hometeam]

Originally Posted by Sully

I think that's exactly what NFL scouts will spend hours looking at. On a fade, is he putting the ball high outside? One a short slant, is the ball low in front? Where on "the clock" is the ball and how consistent is he at putting it in the right place.
His decision-making seems great. His arm seems average to a hair above average. Leadership/smarts and that type of accuracy are going to be, IMO, what separates him.

I think his arm is pretty big. You can tell on his deep balls that he consistently puts the ball in the right position. When you have less arm not only does the ball take longer to get there, guys have to push it down the field so it gets under or overthrown. (see Cassell) I'm not sure how much of the film and gifs you have looked at, but his ball placement is as good as any college QB and leaps and bounds above the rest of the top QBs in this class.

Still, this evidence is anecdotal. But, when you are talking about something that is an extremely complex art form, open to interpretation, that is really the best you have to work with.

[RippedmyFlesh]

Originally Posted by hometeam

I think his arm is pretty big.

THIS
He throws a better deep ball than a lot of NFL qbs let alone this class.

[Sully]

Originally Posted by hometeam

I think his arm is pretty big. You can tell on his deep balls that he consistently puts the ball in the right position. When you have less arm not only does the ball take longer to get there, guys have to push it down the field so it gets under or overthrown. (see Cassell) I'm not sure how much of the film and gifs you have looked at, but his ball placement is as good as any college QB and leaps and bounds above the rest of the top QBs in this class.

Still, this evidence is anecdotal. But, when you are talking about something that is an extremely complex art form, open to interpretation, that is really the best you have to work with.

I'll trust that you've watched far more of him than I have. The little I've seen does have me question his big arm. Not saying he's Pennington-weak, I just felt it wasn't a huge arm. But I won't die on that hill, and defer to folks who have spent more time studying him than me.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Sully

I'll trust that you've watched far more of him than I have. The little I've seen does have me question his big arm. Not saying he's Pennington-weak, I just felt it wasn't a huge arm. But I won't die on that hill, and defer to folks who have spent more time studying him than me.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Sully

I'll trust that you've watched far more of him than I have. The little I've seen does have me question his big arm. Not saying he's Pennington-weak, I just felt it wasn't a huge arm. But I won't die on that hill, and defer to folks who have spent more time studying him than me.

Smith's arm strength is undersold.

He has a tendency to throw off his back foot, or to not follow through with his front foot stepping into a throw.

When his mechanics are sound, he drives his hips through the ball and throws lasers.

Good coaching will get him to be more consistent with proper mechanics.

[mdchiefsfan]

Originally Posted by Sully

I'll trust that you've watched far more of him than I have. The little I've seen does have me question his big arm. Not saying he's Pennington-weak, I just felt it wasn't a huge arm. But I won't die on that hill, and defer to folks who have spent more time studying him than me.

Go to youtube and look for Geno Smith vs. Baylor 2012. The man has at least 4 passes of 25+ yards. That video will show you how little effort those long passes require from him. I would embed but I'm on mobile.

[Ace Gunner]

I appreciate the effort of the OP, but he does not tell me which passes were defensed effectively and whether it was or was not a result of poor placement by the QB. To me, those are very important pieces to the eval and that is what makes Geno attractive to any pass offense, is his consistency in getting the ball right where it needs to be for his WR's.

I've watched enough on Geno to see he is going to need to adjust his reads a bit in the NFL because defenders are much faster, more creative in coverage and will jump routes on some passes he'd normally get away with in college. But this is true of any QB -- college is one thing, the NFL is something else.

He does have some issues he will need to improve on right away, and some of them are his footwork. It's been said, he does look down his guys sometimes too, he will need to become better at "hat str8, eyes moving". Not a big deal.

Now the one thing he needs to get better at is pocket awareness -- he tends to lose track of pressure at times. This one is big. He doesn't have the natural footwork to ascape easily and that can be dealt with using your scheme/play calling during certain situations where you know the defense is going to pin their ears back and go at him. But he's a tall guy, has that high release and I think a good coach can help him handle himself better as a QB under pressure.

[Bump]

Originally Posted by Buzz_TinBalls

I appreciate the effort of the OP, but he does not tell me which passes were defensed effectively and whether it was or was not a result of poor placement by the QB. To me, those are very important pieces to the eval and that is what makes Geno attractive to any pass offense, is his consistency in getting the ball right where it needs to be for his WR's.

I've watched enough on Geno to see he is going to need to adjust his reads a bit in the NFL because defenders are much faster, more creative in coverage and will jump routes on some passes he'd normally get away with in college. But this is true of any QB -- college is one thing, the NFL is something else.

He does have some issues he will need to improve on right away, and some of them are his footwork. It's been said, he does look down his guys sometimes too, he will need to become better at "hat str8, eyes moving". Not a big deal.

Now the one thing he needs to get better at is pocket awareness -- he tends to lose track of pressure at times. This one is big. He doesn't have the natural footwork to ascape easily and that can be dealt with using your scheme/play calling during certain situations where you know the defense is going to pin their ears back and go at him. But he's a tall guy, has that high release and I think a good coach can help him handle himself better as a QB under pressure.

ya, coaching will be important. Every QB coming out will have certain things that needs work. I'm sure even Andrew Luck got coached up a bit. I wouldn't expect an immediate playoff berth, but that's what everyone is going to expect since Luck, RG3 and Dalton have their rookie seasons. They see that and will think that every rookie QB has to make the playoffs or they suck.