So many people want to trade the 2nd round pick.... - Page 4

milkman · 03-13-2005, 12:07 AM

....citing Carl's piss poor 2nd round draft record as a reason that a 2nd for Surtain is a no brainer.

Yet these same people are drooling over the prospect of picking that 1st round CB, or LB, or even WR.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't Carl's 1st round draft record nearly as pathetic as his 2nd round record?

What makes any of you think we'll get a stud in the 1st round?

I just don't get it.

DTLB58 · 03-13-2005, 11:43 AM

Gaz
Can find positive and negative reviews of just about every player out there.

I agree after reading through tons of player bios and mocks over the past month that is a very true statement. But there are certain weakness that can't be taught or it could mean that player just does not have the attitude to be strong in that area. One weakness I HATE to see is, Isn't a great tackler...Not very stout against the run... That is about attitude. Does a CB have to have that, probably not, but that is one of the reasons I always hated Deion.

tiptap · 03-13-2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaptownChief

A couple things...First off the Fins don't have a 2nd round pick because of their brilliant AJ Feeley trade, they also don't have a 3rd round pick because of the Lamar Gordon trade with the Rams.

As for the guaranteed contracts comment I believe you are thinking of the NBA where 1st rounders get a guaranteed 3 year deal and 2nd rounders don't...NFL isn't like that...Only thing guaranteed is the signing bonus that is put in their hand. Granted because the signing bonuses are getting so big that it is becoming more popular for part of the bonus to be deferred but other than the guaranteed bonuses in the contracts virtually nothing else is.
.

Within the regular NFL salary cap is a second, or sub-cap, for signing rookies (including draft picks), which takes into account the number and placement in the draft order of each team's picks. Each team gets a certain share of a predetermined total amount of money (the "rookie pool") to spend on rookies. Since this money is counted against the overall cap, it's actually a cap within the cap.

For 2004 the Raiders will be allowed to spend up to $5,170,440 in cap money to sign their rookies (both drafted and undrafted).

In 2002 the NFL allocated an average of about $3.8 million per team, but the allocated amount varied from team to team depending on the number of draft picks they had. The Raiders' 2002 allocation for signing rookies was $4,254,000.

http://www.vertgame.com/rookie_pool.html

While it is true the contracts aren't fixed the numbers are pretty well set by this Rookie Cap within the Cap situation. So Miami might get allotted more money with 2 first round drafts but would be pushed over the top in the overall cap. This is what I was referring to.

But if Miami doesn't have a 2nd pick then this is a dead idea.

philfree · 03-13-2005, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Here is a bio on your 1st rounder. Sounds a lot like what we already have...

From nflcountdown...

Carlos Rogers

Official Bio College: Auburn Height: 6-03/8
Position: Cornerback Weight: 196
Class: Senior 40-Yard: 4.35
SCOUTING REPORT
Strengths: Excellent size and speed for the position...Tough player who will fight through injuries...Great athleticism...Good ball skills and has become a a playmaker as a senior...Has a lot of experience and made an impact early on as a freshman.

Who in the Chiefs secondary fits that description? Good Ball Skills and a Playmaker? Bartee has no ball skills what so ever. Neither does Battle.

PhilFree

Coogs · 03-13-2005, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

Who in the Chiefs secondary fits that description? Good Ball Skills and a Playmaker? Bartee has no ball skills what so ever. Neither does Battle.

PhilFree

And who in the Chiefs secondary doesn't fit this description?

Quote:

Weaknesses: Doesn't always play up to his physical tools...Isn't a great tackler...Not very stout against the run...Has a lot of work to do in terms of his technique...Needs to master the nuances of the position rather than relying on his physical gifts so much.

milkman · 03-13-2005, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

Who in the Chiefs secondary fits that description? Good Ball Skills and a Playmaker? Bartee has no ball skills what so ever. Neither does Battle.

PhilFree

I really think the problem lies in the fact that Carl, somehow has mistaken "athletic" for "versatile".

I'm not sure about Battle, but Bartee is considered athletic, so Carl (and Gun, for that matter) felt that he had the potential to convert to corner, without giving actual thought to the fact that corner technique requires both good instints, and years of practice for most.

Dale Carter was a rare exception.

They seem to have forgotten about the pevious failed effort of converting Woods to corner.

Coogs · 03-13-2005, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SideWinder

I really think the problem lies in the fact that Carl, somehow has mistaken "athletic" for "versatile".

I'm not sure about Battle, but Bartee is considered athletic, so Carl (and Gun, for that matter) felt that he had the potential to convert to corner, without giving actual thought to the fact that corner technique requires both good instints, and years of practice for most.

Dale Carter was a rare exception.

They seem to have forgotten about the pevious failed effort of converting Woods to corner.

IIRC, Battle was supposed to be just as athletic if not more so than Carter.

milkman · 03-13-2005, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coogs

IIRC, Battle was supposed to be just as athletic if not more so than Carter.

I think we've proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that more than just athleticism is required for the CB position.

Spicy McHaggis · 03-13-2005, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTLB58

Gaz
Can find positive and negative reviews of just about every player out there.

I agree after reading through tons of player bios and mocks over the past month that is a very true statement. But there are certain weakness that can't be taught or it could mean that player just does not have the attitude to be strong in that area. One weakness I HATE to see is, Isn't a great tackler...Not very stout against the run... That is about attitude. Does a CB have to have that, probably not, but that is one of the reasons I always hated Deion.

I like Rogers but I agree with DTLB58 here. Out of the guys I consider the 4 top corners Rolle, Jones, Browner and Rogers, Rogers is the only one who seems to not like to support the run as much. Even Pac-Man who is more diminutive than the rest attacks the line on runs.

**BossChief** · 11-17-2012, 01:27 PM

LOLWUT?

Titty Meat · 11-17-2012, 01:29 PM

This has to be Woodchuck****er

milkman · 11-17-2012, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini

This has to be Woodchuck****er

This doesn't feel like woodchucker to me.

Has brianfo been banned?

**BossChief** · 11-17-2012, 01:42 PM

My guess is joey

**Old Dog** · 11-17-2012, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

My guess is joey

+1

milkman · 11-17-2012, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

My guess is joey

Joey, to the best of knowledge, has no reason to stalk me.

Never had any problems with him, that I can recall.

ThaVirus · 11-17-2012, 02:00 PM

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess it's Flopnuts.

He's an evil ****er.

03-13-2005, 12:07 AM
milkman Dumbass! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Leading the Marty bashing Casino cash: $10029395	So many people want to trade the 2nd round pick.... ....citing Carl's piss poor 2nd round draft record as a reason that a 2nd for Surtain is a no brainer. Yet these same people are drooling over the prospect of picking that 1st round CB, or LB, or even WR. Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't Carl's 1st round draft record nearly as pathetic as his 2nd round record? What makes any of you think we'll get a stud in the 1st round? I just don't get it.
Posts: 70,769

03-13-2005, 11:43 AM	#46
DTLB58 DT CARD COLLECTOR Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: ManCave Casino cash: $10005837	Gaz Can find positive and negative reviews of just about every player out there. I agree after reading through tons of player bios and mocks over the past month that is a very true statement. But there are certain weakness that can't be taught or it could mean that player just does not have the attitude to be strong in that area. One weakness I HATE to see is, Isn't a great tackler...Not very stout against the run... That is about attitude. Does a CB have to have that, probably not, but that is one of the reasons I always hated Deion. __________________ 667 Different DT cards and counting
Posts: 7,574

11-17-2012, 01:27 PM	#54
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $1864088	LOLWUT? __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,129

11-17-2012, 01:29 PM	#55
Titty Meat Inmem 2.0 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: My house Casino cash: $2267558	This has to be Woodchuck****er
Posts: 75,169

11-17-2012, 01:42 PM	#57
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $1864088	My guess is joey __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,129

11-17-2012, 02:00 PM	#60
ThaVirus Settle this once and forever Join Date: Sep 2007 Casino cash: $2072369	I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess it's Flopnuts. He's an evil ****er.
Posts: 44,275