Per 810: Chiefs tried to trade back up into 1st round

[Coogs]

And they are looking to move up in the 2nd.

They think Dalvin Cook is the target.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Acker.

Murray was fine on an island in college. You continue to train him in a 'swing safety' role similar to what we did with Demps/Branch. You move on from Acker and call it a day.

Baker probably could play some Dime because you're generally not asking dime backs to play man coverage so his skills would allow him to zone up well enough still. But I'd have a high enough long-term value on him that I'd be reluctant to ask him to dedicate time to anything other than where I'd ultimately want him. I'd have him playing a whole lot of single-high scout team and taking every snap I could when Parker needed a breather.

I'd focus on having him as the backup to Parker and make Murray more of a hybrid.

Totally forgot about Acker. Yeah....I'd be cutting Acker.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

I seriously have no clue how people are coming up with JC comparisons.

I realize that in defending my stance on the guy that i come off a bit harsh. I honestly think he'll be an alright back. Just not a game breaker.

But to compare him to Charles is just insane. They are literally nothing alike. They're not built the same. They don't run the same, and they sure as **** don't test the same.

Yeah, I'm doing the same thing.

In trying to establish that I don't want the guy, I may be overselling his flaws. But this guy isn't a difference maker. And when I compare him to Melvin Gordon - who will be a starting RB for 5ish years in this league, I don't think I'm calling him a big ol' pile of shit or anything.

I just think he's really meh. And backs come from everywhere, man. Like I said in the draft forum - does he do anything at all better than Isiah Crowell? Y'know, the UDFA? I don't see it.

And teams strike gold on guys like that every season.

I'd consider Cook in the 3rd but not before then. Because that's about where I'd put a RB who's probably going to be productive enough, but isn't going to change your offense much.

[Sandy Vagina]

Never thought I'd see "not a difference maker" and Dalvin Cook in the same sentence.

Again.. I don't love the dude or even want him to be the choice... but man.. that does make my face crumple up.

[ModSocks]

Originally Posted by Semichief

I think you are mistaking speed on a track with speed in pads. They are correlated but absolutely not the same.

The bad angles you describe happen frequently with Cook because players, despite having been coached to stop him and his speed, don't realize how fast he is because a) he's that fast and b) it looks effortless. When you see would-be tacklers take bad angles a few times, you know the runner is lucky. When you see it happen all the time, it's because he's great.

Fournette missed five games last year due to injury. McCaffrey was hobbled in three. Somehow Cook is the injury risk...

Cook was arguably better than Fournette each of their three years in college. It will remain a mystery to me, and soon a lot of NFL fans, why they were separated in the draft by 25+ picks.

I understand the argument you're trying to make, but the guy gets tackled from behind quite routinely. That's more evidence that doesn't suggest game breaking speed. It's evidence that his timed speed is accurate.

To be fair, i believe his speed is adequate. I think he displays some good power, and he's shown to have good hands. I think he'll be competent. But i don't see anything about him that makes him special. I don't see any game breaking potential.

If it remains a mystery to you as to why these back are separated so much, shouldn't that be a sign that maybe you should re-evaluate?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Semichief

The bad angles you describe happen frequently with Cook because players, despite having been coached to stop him and his speed, don't realize how fast he is because a) he's that fast and b) it looks effortless. When you see would-be tacklers take bad angles a few times, you know the runner is lucky. When you see it happen all the time, it's because he's great.

When it happens all the time, it's because they are green.

And when he gets to the NFL, the dude with the 4.5 speed isn't going to be fooling anybody. Moreover, even if it does, the NFL is full of freaks that are going to be able to change directions and bring him down. And when teams have 40 hours/wk to sit in a film room, it won't take long for "gentlemen, he's actually faster than he looks" to take (and that's presuming you believe that, which I don't).

Again - this same stuff gets said about skill position players a lot and for the vast VAST majority of them, the guys that test slow play slow. You believe Cook is in that tiny majority and that his checkered history is behind him.

I don't believe either of those enough to ignore the other. If I thought for sure that he was a model citizen, maybe I'd consider him in the second. If I thought for sure that he was more explosive than literally every measurement taken from him, maybe I'd consider him. But I don't really believe either of those things and to whatever extend I think one or the other COULD prove true, it's not enough to convince me to overlook both potential problems.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

While I agree in theory, I just don't know how this team goes into the season with Gaines on the roster because he's unavailable so often.

Idk Dane I think they keep Gaines as the last CB and cut Acker. He was a good corner before last year. I know he's made of glass but he's cheap and wouldn't be relied upon.

Peters, Mitchell, Nelson, Draft pick, White, Gaines

That would be awesome

[O.city]

Jets are shopping Richardson.

If they'd take a 4th for him, interested?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Jets are shopping Richardson.

If they'd take a 4th for him, interested?

I'd be shocked if we could fit him under the cap.

$8 million base this year. You'd have to extend him to fit it and I'm not excited about that either because he's a malcontent that will coast if he gets paid.

Moreover, his time at Mizzou + his time at NYJ has shown me all I need to see about this guy. I'm not sure he's a bad person. And I'm not sure he's a paycheck player and a lazy, selfish cancer. But I am absolutely positive that he's as dumb as a goddamn hammer and that if the former issues are not true, the latter sure as hell seems to manifest itself in a way that looks a LOT like a guy that is a lazy, selfish asshole.

Nah, I'm a pretty firm no on Sheldon Richardson.

[ModSocks]

Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks

Never thought I'd see "not a difference maker" and Dalvin Cook in the same sentence.

Again.. I don't love the dude or even want him to be the choice... but man.. that does make my face crumple up.

Referring back to my post in another thread (or this one, i can't remember) i mentioned that i've been watching the backs all night and this morning and the one thing i came away with is that they're hard to evaluate because the collegiate defenses simply aren't as disciplined.

So when a back like Cook, or anyone for that matter, bursts around a corner for a 50 yard gain, the first thing i see is a defense that was miserably out of position and failed to seal the edge. I see holes that Charcandrick West would run through.

When you watch Cook, there's a LOOOOT of those kinds of plays.

Then, when you combine that the fact that he gets caught from behind + his SPARQ, im left with the impression that while he was good in college, his speed will actually be quite average at the NFL level.

It's akin to watching a WR run free through a defense and then going, "Yup that guy has the juice".

I feel the same way about "Contested Catch" WR's. Some guys see a big guy that jumps up and catches the ball. I see a guy who doesn't have the speed to run away from collegiate defenders, and certainly won't at the NFL level.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by O.city

Jets are shopping Richardson.

If they'd take a 4th for him, interested?

Nope.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Idk Dane I think they keep Gaines as the last CB and cut Acker. He was a good corner before last year. I know he's made of glass but he's cheap and wouldn't be relied upon.

Peters, Mitchell, Nelson, Draft pick, White, Gaines

That would be awesome

Ideally, IMO, the Chiefs come away with 2 corners in this draft in order to push Gaines & Acker off the roster.

Every time the Chiefs have needed Gaines, he's failed to deliver.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Referring back to my post in another thread (or this one, i can't remember) i mentioned that i've been watching the backs all night and this morning and the one thing i came away with is that they're hard to evaluate because the collegiate defenses simply aren't as disciplined.

So when a back like Cook, or anyone for that matter, bursts around a corner for a 50 yard gain, the first thing i see is a defense that was miserably out of position and failed to seal the edge. I see holes that Charcandrick West would run through.

When you watch Cook, there's a LOOOOT of those kinds of plays.

Then, when you combine that the fact that he gets caught from behind + his SPARQ, im left with the impression that while he was good in college, his speed will actually be quite average at the NFL level.

It's akin to watching WR run free through a defense and then going, "Yup that guy as the juice".

Yeah, well.. that is fair. I don't get paid to notice the extreme details. Just comfortable enough to see that it looks like dude is a difference maker.. and dangerous as all ****.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Ideally, IMO, the Chiefs come away with 2 corners in this draft in order to push Gaines & Acker off the roster.

Every time the Chiefs have needed Gaines, he's failed to deliver.

A corner and a safety does the same job.

With Peters, Mitchell, Nelson, White, Pick you're pretty solid at CB.

And with Berry, Parker, Sorensen, Murray, Pick you're fine at S as well given Murrays ability to play the Demps role if needed.

If two DBs go off the board, I think that's exactly what you see happen. I'd hate it because I still love Gaines' potential as a cover corner; there is so much athleticism and fluidity there. But if he can't answer the bell (and he can't), you really can't justify keeping him around.

[O.city]

I'm more concerned about the front 7 than the dbacks.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by O.city

I'm more concerned about the front 7 than the dbacks.

If there's value at #59 for a D-lineman or an Edge rusher rather than a CB at that spot, go for it.

But in any case, the Chiefs will need to grab a CB tonight, if not in the 2nd then in the 3rd.