Chiefs Sutton's Defense Won't Dictate Or Attack - Page 9

FloridaMan88 · 08-18-2018, 01:06 PM

Sutton's defense is the "Death by 1,000 Scratches Defense"... it is so focused on avoiding giving up the big play that instead it gives up 10-12 play drives.

And yes getting Ragland and Hitchens back will help, but it is questionable what type of impact Eric Berry will have when he returns coming off a second major leg/foot injury and now continuing to be hampered by heel issues.

To expect a 29 year old, going on 30 years old in December safety with significant leg/feet injuries to magically cure all that ails Sutton's defense is a major reach.

And to those who think that Berry's "leadership" presence will significantly help the defense when he returns (despite any potential regression in his physical skills)... see Derrick Johnson last year. "Leadership" with declining talent has a limited impact.

RunKC · 08-18-2018, 02:30 PM

Eligwe oversold the run and was out of position completely on that first big run.

He was in position to stop that for a 2 yard gain but instead this happened.

Don’t expect that to happen with Hitchens. That’s a young players mistake.

RunKC · 08-18-2018, 02:34 PM

Goddamn Eligwe. All the blocks were taken up and the guy had every opportunity to get there and stop that run for 2-3 yards. He hesitated and then ran into his own freaking guy.

**Tribal Warfare** · 08-18-2018, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

Goddamn Eligwe. All the blocks were taken up and the guy had every opportunity to get there and stop that run for 2-3 yards. He hesitated and then ran into his own freaking guy.

Jarvis Jenkins got owned losing leverage, and got driven into the ground.

**RealSNR** · 08-18-2018, 02:39 PM

Eligwe better figure his shit out

kccrow · 08-18-2018, 02:55 PM

I think this OP is making a huge assumption based upon the performance of last year's defense. It's pre-season, where vanilla is largely what's on tap.

For starters, Bob Sutton has historically changed his defensive alignments, especially his fronts, frequently to make pre-snap harder on QB's, all the while masking his true intentions. This creates a lot of turnover opportunities, something the Chiefs have been very good at during his tenure. To say he won't try to dictate what the offense does is incredibly premature. He's showing them one thing to make them think they can do something they really can't. Now, if players fail to do their jobs, a la 2017, that's not all on Bob Sutton.

Bob Sutton has also shown that he is more than willing to attack when he has the horses and the situation to do so. He was one of the most attacking coordinators in the league when he came here. Whether or not he will attack is something we'll have to see in 2018, because he certainly left a lot on the table last year in that regard but I can't fault him entirely. I do fault him for being the least aggressive team on 3rd down with only a 14% blitz percentage. He didn't have much for options, but not having your top pass rusher rush the passer with the frequency he did last year was inexcusable. That, of course, doesn't mean Sutton won't go back to a more attack-oriented defense.

A lot does go into attacking. He has to trust the 6 he's keeping back more than he does the 5 he's sending on the attack (or whatever combination thereof). It's yet to be seen if he can trust his DBs enough to consistently send 5 (or more). Then, does he have the horses to actually get home on that blitz? I think the potential starting lineup might, but I think the depth could continue to lack. Not a lot of sense in blitzing just to blitz. A team that blitzes too often is very easy to counter and they will get burned in the NFL. Teams run even more frequently now out of the pistol and shotgun to boot, which makes it even more difficult to get a blitz home.

It's all a timing game. Most teams send 4 frequently, but most do not send 5 as frequently as you might expect. Sure, you have the teams that blitz 35%+ but most teams hover in the low 20's, around 23%. The Chiefs were on the low end at just under 18%, but the middle of the pack on pressure percentage created from that blitz. The problem is, even though they got pressure, teams got big plays on them with a league-worst DVOA. The Chiefs were middle of the pack in all categories when only sending 4. Anyhow, it's one thing to blitz and another to have an effective blitz. Sutton didn't blitz as much last year because the Chiefs just weren't good at it.

ThaVirus · 08-18-2018, 03:18 PM

On a positive note, who's #34? Watch him in that first gif.

He takes on an OL with a full head of steam and stonewalls him, then shows great pursuit to chase the play down.

ThaVirus · 08-18-2018, 03:20 PM

Ok, 34 is McQuay.

He actually hawks down the ball carrier from the opposite side of the field on the second long gain as well.

NJChiefsFan · 08-18-2018, 04:51 PM

Bend but don't break can look a lot better if the front seven can stop the run without help. Or the OLBs have a big year. I don't see the secondary making the improvement.

ThaVirus · 08-18-2018, 05:06 PM

Ford did a horrible job of setting the edge as well.

I'm afraid he just lacks the strength to ever be a solid run defender. On that play, you can see he's so overwhelmed, he focuses 100% on the blocker, ignoring the ball carrier entirely in the process.

Houston disengages as the RB approaches the hole and squeezes inside to stop that play for a 1-2 yard gain.

Chiefshrink · 08-19-2018, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Ford did a horrible job of setting the edge as well.

I'm afraid he just lacks the strength to ever be a solid run defender. On that play, you can see he's so overwhelmed, he focuses 100% on the blocker, ignoring the ball carrier entirely in the process.

Houston disengages as the RB approaches the hole and squeezes inside to stop that play for a 1-2 yard gain.

Ford and this guy Niemann( I know everyone loves this guy but after watching him play) are too small to your point. Ford has no instincts to smell out a play and why he looks clueless after the fact and both cannot shed blocks to your point again. I will give Neiman this that he has instincts but he cannot get off the blocks because of his size and lack of strength and gets caught up in the traffic.

O.city · 08-19-2018, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Ford did a horrible job of setting the edge as well.

I'm afraid he just lacks the strength to ever be a solid run defender. On that play, you can see he's so overwhelmed, he focuses 100% on the blocker, ignoring the ball carrier entirely in the process.

Houston disengages as the RB approaches the hole and squeezes inside to stop that play for a 1-2 yard gain.

Ford did what he’s supposed to do. The ILB is supposed to flow and fill after ford sets the edge. Ideally he’d disengage and make a tackle but first and foremost he has to keep everything turned inside to pursuit.

That’s on Eligwe and the other ILB who have both seemed pretty meh.

Chiefshrink · 08-19-2018, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Ford did what he’s supposed to do. The ILB is supposed to flow and fill after ford sets the edge. Ideally he’d disengage and make a tackle but first and foremost he has to keep everything turned inside to pursuit.

That’s on Eligwe and the other ILB who have both seemed pretty meh.

Ford has no instincts whatsoever and cannot shed blocks PERIOD. He is a bust. Just cut bait with this guy emotionally already okay?

O.city · 08-19-2018, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

Ford has no instincts whatsoever and cannot shed blocks PERIOD. He is a bust. Just cut bait with this guy emotionally already okay?

Sure he didn’t get off the block, but again, he turned the rb back in to the ILB. Did his job there.

Chiefshrink · 08-19-2018, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Sure he didn’t get off the block, but again, he turned the rb back in to the ILB. Did his job there.

My point being to few and far between. He is just not good.

08-18-2018, 01:06 PM	#1
FloridaMan88 Mahomes: We Are All Witnesses Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Miami, FL Casino cash: $2962906	Sutton's defense is the "Death by 1,000 Scratches Defense"... it is so focused on avoiding giving up the big play that instead it gives up 10-12 play drives. And yes getting Ragland and Hitchens back will help, but it is questionable what type of impact Eric Berry will have when he returns coming off a second major leg/foot injury and now continuing to be hampered by heel issues. To expect a 29 year old, going on 30 years old in December safety with significant leg/feet injuries to magically cure all that ails Sutton's defense is a major reach. And to those who think that Berry's "leadership" presence will significantly help the defense when he returns (despite any potential regression in his physical skills)... see Derrick Johnson last year. "Leadership" with declining talent has a limited impact.
Posts: 38,620

08-18-2018, 02:30 PM	#2
RunKC Andy Reid Supporter Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $2049611	Eligwe oversold the run and was out of position completely on that first big run. He was in position to stop that for a 2 yard gain but instead this happened. Don’t expect that to happen with Hitchens. That’s a young players mistake. __________________ Mike Greenberg@Espngreeny I can’t fathom what it must be like to be a fan of the #Chiefs. Adopt a Chief: Noah Gray
Posts: 46,270

08-18-2018, 02:34 PM	#3
RunKC Andy Reid Supporter Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $2049611	Goddamn Eligwe. All the blocks were taken up and the guy had every opportunity to get there and stop that run for 2-3 yards. He hesitated and then ran into his own freaking guy. __________________ Mike Greenberg@Espngreeny I can’t fathom what it must be like to be a fan of the #Chiefs. Adopt a Chief: Noah Gray
Posts: 46,270

08-18-2018, 02:55 PM	#6
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $3057078	I think this OP is making a huge assumption based upon the performance of last year's defense. It's pre-season, where vanilla is largely what's on tap. For starters, Bob Sutton has historically changed his defensive alignments, especially his fronts, frequently to make pre-snap harder on QB's, all the while masking his true intentions. This creates a lot of turnover opportunities, something the Chiefs have been very good at during his tenure. To say he won't try to dictate what the offense does is incredibly premature. He's showing them one thing to make them think they can do something they really can't. Now, if players fail to do their jobs, a la 2017, that's not all on Bob Sutton. Bob Sutton has also shown that he is more than willing to attack when he has the horses and the situation to do so. He was one of the most attacking coordinators in the league when he came here. Whether or not he will attack is something we'll have to see in 2018, because he certainly left a lot on the table last year in that regard but I can't fault him entirely. I do fault him for being the least aggressive team on 3rd down with only a 14% blitz percentage. He didn't have much for options, but not having your top pass rusher rush the passer with the frequency he did last year was inexcusable. That, of course, doesn't mean Sutton won't go back to a more attack-oriented defense. A lot does go into attacking. He has to trust the 6 he's keeping back more than he does the 5 he's sending on the attack (or whatever combination thereof). It's yet to be seen if he can trust his DBs enough to consistently send 5 (or more). Then, does he have the horses to actually get home on that blitz? I think the potential starting lineup might, but I think the depth could continue to lack. Not a lot of sense in blitzing just to blitz. A team that blitzes too often is very easy to counter and they will get burned in the NFL. Teams run even more frequently now out of the pistol and shotgun to boot, which makes it even more difficult to get a blitz home. It's all a timing game. Most teams send 4 frequently, but most do not send 5 as frequently as you might expect. Sure, you have the teams that blitz 35%+ but most teams hover in the low 20's, around 23%. The Chiefs were on the low end at just under 18%, but the middle of the pack on pressure percentage created from that blitz. The problem is, even though they got pressure, teams got big plays on them with a league-worst DVOA. The Chiefs were middle of the pack in all categories when only sending 4. Anyhow, it's one thing to blitz and another to have an effective blitz. Sutton didn't blitz as much last year because the Chiefs just weren't good at it.
Posts: 12,681	3 0

08-18-2018, 03:18 PM	#7
ThaVirus You gotta kill a few people Join Date: Sep 2007 Casino cash: $1882369	On a positive note, who's #34? Watch him in that first gif. He takes on an OL with a full head of steam and stonewalls him, then shows great pursuit to chase the play down.
Posts: 44,420

08-18-2018, 03:20 PM	#8
ThaVirus You gotta kill a few people Join Date: Sep 2007 Casino cash: $1882369	Ok, 34 is McQuay. He actually hawks down the ball carrier from the opposite side of the field on the second long gain as well.
Posts: 44,420

08-18-2018, 04:51 PM	#9
NJChiefsFan I've Made a Huge Mistake Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: NJ Casino cash: $5750423	Bend but don't break can look a lot better if the front seven can stop the run without help. Or the OLBs have a big year. I don't see the secondary making the improvement.
Posts: 12,235

08-18-2018, 05:06 PM	#10
ThaVirus You gotta kill a few people Join Date: Sep 2007 Casino cash: $1882369	Ford did a horrible job of setting the edge as well. I'm afraid he just lacks the strength to ever be a solid run defender. On that play, you can see he's so overwhelmed, he focuses 100% on the blocker, ignoring the ball carrier entirely in the process. Houston disengages as the RB approaches the hole and squeezes inside to stop that play for a 1-2 yard gain.
Posts: 44,420	1 0