***Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread III.***

[BigRedChief]

2011 World Series Championship
2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
2015 Central Division title. Won 100 games. Lost in the NLDS.

• Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
• Only 1 losing season since 2000.
• Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.
• Made the NLCS 9 times including the last 4 years 2011-2014
• Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.
• 65 post season wins since 2004. 22+ wins more than any other team.

[Bob Dole]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Can you guys please put the Cubs out of it. I'm tired of the national sports media slobbering their knob.

Bob Dole is trying to find out which bar the Cards fans are going to invade so he can go and cheer for the Cubs.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by O.city

It would allow him to cash in again, similar to greinke. I doubt they do it as the talk of that has died down though

It also allows him the possibility of never cashing in again if he stinks it up. Players that take deals like that aren't one of the best at what they do.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

It would allow him to cash in again, similar to greinke. I doubt they do it as the talk of that has died down though

Which is why he'd do it the way I'm discussing.

With my way, he could elect to cash in again, but if he's injured or underperforms, he has the security of simply not exercising the opt out.

Perhaps the Cardinals would do something like an opt-out after 4 years but with the last 2 years being mutual or team options. That would also seem pretty fair.

He's not signing a 4-year deal. ****ing Boras and the Drew contract introduced the idea of player opt-outs to MLB and now just about every young player that signs a deal is going to get one.

[O.city]

Being that he's 26, there'll be an opt out cla use for him. He miraculously hits 25 bombs at age 27 or 28, and nothing else drops off, he'd be in harper territory from a Saber perspective and could really cash in.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

ESPN sent out some kind of fan survey. The Cardinals rank 13th out of 122 franchises and third in MLB, behind the Pirates and....Diamondbacks.

Also, the Chiefs came in 38th, despite not having won a playoff game in 22 years. Just another friendly reminder that fans are dumb as ****.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yeah, I can live with losing to this Cubs team. It sucks they have to be the Cubs, but that's a team that's built itself up the right way and has created a !@#$ing monster.

There's no shame in losing to those guys.

Losing to the !@#$ing Giants in 2014 and 2012, OTOH, will always bug the hell out of me. It really does make me wonder if this era of Cardinals baseball won't be looked back on similarly to the Braves of the 90s - lots of chances but just always coming up a tick short and losing to teams they were better than.

For all the Devil Magic, the Cards haven't been terrible lucky in the PS. They were the best team in baseball in 2004 and '05 and won zero WS games out of it.

They were the best team in 2013 and lost to a one year fluke in Boston.

The teams in 2012 and 2014 were better than the Giants, but the '06 and '11 teams were far inferior to the Mets, Tigers, Phillies, and Rangers.

Out of this 15 year run they probably should have gotten another WS or two, but it's somewhat tempered by the fact that they won two when they shouldn't have.

This team rode a wave of unsustainable run prevention and HR/FB luck. When it runs out, it's a good team, but not much more than an 88-92 win one.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Losing to the !@#$ing Giants in 2014 and 2012, OTOH, will always bug the hell out of me. It really does make me wonder if this era of Cardinals baseball won't be looked back on similarly to the Braves of the 90s - lots of chances but just always coming up a tick short and losing to teams they were better than.

2006 and 2011 says

[jd1020]

Russell out for game 4. Baez at short. Hope this ****er decides he wants to actually throw the ball.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

For all the Devil Magic, the Cards haven't been terrible lucky in the PS. They were the best team in baseball in 2004 and '05 and won zero WS games out of it.

They were the best team in 2013 and lost to a one year fluke in Boston.

The teams in 2012 and 2014 were better than the Giants, but the '06 and '11 teams were far inferior to the Mets, Tigers, Phillies, and Rangers.

Out of this 15 year run they probably should have gotten another WS or two, but it's somewhat tempered by the fact that they won two when they shouldn't have.

This team rode a wave of unsustainable run prevention and HR/FB luck. When it runs out, it's a good team, but not much more than an 88-92 win one.

The thing is, if you look at the number of playoff appearances they've had over their recent golden streak and then just assume them all to be random coin flips, you'd get about what the Cardinals have had. In fact, they'd probably done far better.

So 12 playoff appearances over the last 15 years and if you just go with random chance you get:

6 NLCS appearances, 3 WS appearances and 1, maybe 2 WS championships.

The real outlier comes with the Cardinals absolute dominance in the LDS. The Cards have made it to the LCS an amazing 9 times, only losing twice in the LDS over that period (so far). In the LCS appearances, they've gone 4-5; so pretty random. In the WS they've gone 2-2.

So to my eyes, they're simply due to start losing in the LCS more often. I'm to the point as a baseball fan that I really do see the MLB post-season as blind !@#$ing luck - a complete crap shoot. There's no rhyme or reason to it at this point.

The way to win a lot of championships is to get a lot of bites at the apple. Make it to the post-season 16 times and over that stretch you should get 2 world championships and 4 pennants out of it. I'd like to believe otherwise, but I've seen too many random outcomes in a short series to believe that the best teams really win in the post-season (including the 2 WS the Cards have won over the last decade).

That's why I'm generally opposed to win-now moves, especially at the deadline. Just make it to the post-season as often as possible and sooner or later things will come together for you.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by New World Order

If you're going to spend that kind of money you might as well just throw it at cespedes.

Cespedes is going to get Stanton money.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

2006 and 2011 says

Well even the Braves finally won one of them.

And really, I'm not including the 2006 team in that bunch, though I probably should. I'm thinking more of the 'post-MV3' era; Mozeliak's bunch.

If the Cards go to 2020 when the window on this present incarnation of the Cards shuts and they haven't won another title, wouldn't you look at the decade as successful but at least a little disappointing? Much as the Braves have to view the 90s?

But like I said, if you adhere to the crapshoot school of post-season baseball, then you can't really fault the Cards for much there. They've played to the coinflip odds.

[Hootie]

Well heyward make take less on 8 years if he gets an opt out clause after 4 ... But he isn't taking a 4 year deal straight up

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Cespedes is going to get Stanton money.

And whoever gives it to him will really, really wish they hadn't...

Still more sizzle than steak there, IMO.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Russell out for game 4. Baez at short. this ****er decides he wants to actually throw the ball.

meh, not a big of a lost as Molina.

[teedubya]

There is something powerful about being a Wildcard team that wins the one game playoff... a WC team has won the WS in 2 of 4 years since they implemented it. Before that, IIRC, only the 2005 White Sox won it as a 4th seed wildcard.