Chiefs Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey - Page 16

Quesadilla Joe · 03:11 PM

A lot of new information/quotes in this article...

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html

Spoiler!

The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork.

They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks.

But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity.

As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.”

A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned.

Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired.

While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs.

While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser.

“He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey.

That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team.

“He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.”

“It’s more about his management skills,” another source added.

For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization.

“Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.”

Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others.

“It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said.

Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths.

“Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.”

“He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.”

Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star.

“He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said.

“One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.”

Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation.

“A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.”

Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless.

“He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.”

It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM.

“I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.”

Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two.

“We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM.

“To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.”

tredadda · 06-26-2017, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

True, but only 10 head coaches in league history have more postseason wins.

He has as many postseason wins as Marv Levy, Bill Parcells and Dan Reeves. He has more than Bud Grant, Bill Walsh and Tony Dungy.

And every one of those coaches has either more SB appearances or Lombardis than Reid. Bad examples to use to show how well Reid has done in the playoffs.

tredadda · 06-26-2017, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

I'd say it's tough to expect that when you're dealt a Mike Vick/Alex Smith hand over the last six years.

If Mahomes is the guy I think you'll see Reid's teams have the success they had with McNabb. If not then maybe you have a point.

Reid wanted Smith and he got Smith. This does not excuse his lack of playoff success in KC.

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-26-2017, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tredadda

And every one of those coaches has either more SB appearances or Lombardis than Reid. Bad examples to use to show how well Reid has done in the playoffs.

The one thing in common amongst those coaches (save for Parcells)?

A Hall of Fame quarterback.

To date, Reid hasn't had a Hall of Fame QB as a head coach.

Hammock Parties · 06-26-2017, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The one thing in common amongst those coaches?

A Hall of Fame quarterback.

To date, Reid hasn't had a Hall of Fame QB as a head coach.

This is why I always say I think Reid is no different than Cowher or Dungy.

He's as good a coach as those guys ever were, he's just waiting for his HOF QB.

tredadda · 06-26-2017, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The one thing in common amongst those coaches (save for Parcells)?

A Hall of Fame quarterback.

To date, Reid hasn't had a Hall of Fame QB as a head coach.

Fair enough. I guess we will hopefully see if he can ever get a HOF caliber QB.

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-26-2017, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

This is why I always say I think Reid is no different than Cowher or Dungy.

He's as good a coach as those guys ever were, he's just waiting for his HOF QB.

I think he's a much better coach than Dungy.

If Reid had Peyton Manning, Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne, he'd have won multiple Super Bowls.

**TimeForWasp** · 06-26-2017, 06:42 PM

Happy go lucky Dorsey was great at finding talent but had blinders on and didn't pay attention to what else was going on.

Like a bull in a China cabinet.

Ok someone please gif this up with Dorsey's face on the bull.

Marcellus · 06-26-2017, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate

Thanks. I really liked the stunning examples you provided.

There isn't a large enough sample size involving this situation to give any type of a trend anyway dummy. And correlation does not imply causation.

You act like you expected the Chiefs to be a SB contender this season when we all know you dont think that so I have no idea why your panties are in a wad about the timing anyway. And correlation does not imply causation.

Before this you were rooting for this season's team to suck so that Maholmes would play sooner.

You just like to bitch is what it is.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 06-26-2017, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

There isn't a large enough sample size involving this situation to give any type of a trend anyway dummy. And correlation does not imply causation.

You act like you expected the Chiefs to be a SB contender this season when we all know you dont think that so I have no idea why your panties are in a wad about the timing anyway. And correlation does not imply causation.

Before this you were rooting for this season's team to suck so that Maholmes would play sooner.

You just like to bitch is what it is.

There's no sample size because it DOESN'T ****ING EXIST, Nimrod.
Which was the entire point.

Now let's address the REST of your bullshit:

1) No, I did not act like or expect the Chiefs to be SB contenders this year, and have been on record saying that at best, it's just another go-around with a quick playoff exit per standard Smith excellence. At best. Frankly, I don't believe Alex Smith will ever see another playoff game from behind Center again in his life.

NEVER ROOTED FOR MAHOMES TO PLAY SOOOOOOOOOOOONER!....

Try again please. On record as stating that I don't want him out there unless there is absolutely no other option/choice.

The complaint is that Dorsey and Reid were a good point/counterpoint for each other, much in the same way that Mahomes will be with Andy's conservative style.

Dorsey and Reid? GOOD yin/yang. PROVEN.

Reid and Jim Bumble****? NO IDEA WHATSOEVER.

But more than likely NOT an upgrade to the original setup, and lucky as **** if they can maintain the status quo with better cap management.

Thank you for playing; GOODNIGHT!

splatbass · 06-26-2017, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate

There's no sample size because it DOESN'T ****ING EXIST, Nimrod.
Which was the entire point.

Now let's address the REST of your bullshit:

1) No, I did not act like or expect the Chiefs to be SB contenders this year, and have been on record saying that at best, it's just another go-around with a quick playoff exit per standard Smith excellence. At best. Frankly, I don't believe Alex Smith will ever see another playoff game from behind Center again in his life.

NEVER ROOTED FOR MAHOMES TO PLAY SOOOOOOOOOOOONER!....

Try again please. On record as stating that I don't want him out there unless there is absolutely no other option/choice.

The complaint is that Dorsey and Reid were a good point/counterpoint for each other, much in the same way that Mahomes will be with Andy's conservative style.

Dorsey and Reid? GOOD yin/yang. PROVEN.

Reid and Jim Bumble****? NO IDEA WHATSOEVER.

But more than likely NOT an upgrade to the original setup, and lucky as **** if they can maintain the status quo with better cap management.

Thank you for playing; GOODNIGHT!

The sky is falling!!!! The sky is falling!!!!!

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-26-2017, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate

Thank you for playing; GOODNIGHT!

Go away, ****tard.

Go away.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 06-26-2017, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Go away, ****tard.

Go away.

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-26-2017, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate

**bevischief** · 06-26-2017, 11:24 PM

How many candy wrappers did he find or not find?

Dunerdr · 06-27-2017, 12:14 PM

My sources tell me Dorsey was unwilling to bring on alex smith as a 2020 qb coach and was terminated for it.

06-25-2017, 02:52 PM
Quesadilla Joe Abolish The Salary Cap! Join Date: Mar 2008 Casino cash: $3908675	Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey A lot of new information/quotes in this article... http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html Spoiler! The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork. They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks. But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity. As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.” A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned. Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired. While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs. While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser. “He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey. That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team. “He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.” “It’s more about his management skills,” another source added. For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization. “Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.” Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others. “It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said. Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths. “Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.” “He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.” Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star. “He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said. “One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.” Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation. “A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.” Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless. “He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.” It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM. “I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.” Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two. “We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM. “To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.” Last edited by Quesadilla Joe; 06-25-2017 at 03:11 PM..
Posts: 19,794

06-26-2017, 06:42 PM	#232
TimeForWasp Sprinkle in some Mahomes Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Butte Montana Casino cash: $7678507	Happy go lucky Dorsey was great at finding talent but had blinders on and didn't pay attention to what else was going on. Like a bull in a China cabinet. Ok someone please gif this up with Dorsey's face on the bull. __________________ Posted via Slingshot using Rocks eBay sniper Last edited by TimeForWasp; 06-26-2017 at 06:57 PM.. Reason: .
Posts: 8,270

06-26-2017, 11:24 PM	#239
bevischief .... Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somewhere Kansas Casino cash: $8659352 VARSITY	How many candy wrappers did he find or not find?
Posts: 27,731

06-27-2017, 12:14 PM	#240
Dunerdr MVP Join Date: Oct 2012 Casino cash: $2209677	My sources tell me Dorsey was unwilling to bring on alex smith as a 2020 qb coach and was terminated for it. __________________ Adopt-A-Chief- Rachel Santschi
Posts: 10,869