Science Elon Musk: Demand for Tesla's home battery is 'crazy off the hook' - Page 3

Pitt Gorilla · 05-06-2015, 10:20 PM

https://fortune.com/2015/05/06/elon-...-home-battery/

Demand for Tesla’s energy storage batteries are so high that the company’s Nevada gigafactory could dedicate all of its production to the home and utility products, CEO Elon Musk says.

Tesla CEO Elon Musk was his usual effusive self in describing demand for his company’s new Powerwall home batteries for storing home solar energy, unveiled last week at a splashy event outside Los Angeles. He called the 38,000 pre-orders “crazy off the hook” while acknowledging that his company’s production can’t keep up.

“There’s like no way we could possibly satisfy demand this year,” Musk told analysts Wednesday during its first-quarter earnings call. “We’re basically sold out through the middle of next year.”

Musk is making good on his promise to revolutionize the auto industry with his electric carmaking upstart. Now he has set his sights on another target: energy.

Musk’s long-term vision for Tesla Energy is bold—he expects global sales and to “fundamentally change the way the world uses energy.” But even he seemed surprised by interest in the energy storage products. The level of demand has been so large the executive team is investigating whether it should boost capacity for stationary storage battery packs at its so-called “gigafactory” currently under construction near Reno, Nev.

In addition to home batteries, Tesla has come up with a bigger battery for commercial use and utilities, called Powerpack. Customers have pre-ordered 2,500 of those. Musk cast the demand as a bit deceiving. He described the reservations as the equivalent of 25,000 packs because a typical utility or heavy industrial customer would require at least 10 of the packs.

Using a somewhat similar calculation, Tesla expects the average home customer to order 1.5 to 2 of its smaller Powerwall units. If that prediction is correct, that would mean orders for as many as 60,000 Powerwall home battery packs.

About one-third of the battery pack production capacity at the gigafactory has been reserved for energy storage. However, Musk said the company could increase that capacity by as much as 50% because of unexpectedly high demand.

“The sheer volume of demand is just staggering,” he said. “We could easily have the entire gigafactory just do storage.”

Even if Tesla does boost capacity, battery packs for the Model S and the highly anticipated Model X SUV are still the priority, Musk added.

Powerwall, a sleek suitcase-sized lithium-ion battery designed for homeowners to store energy, comes in 7 kilowatt-hour and 10 kWh sizes. Both units are meant to be combined with solar panels. The 10 kWh home unit is designed as a source of backup power, while 7 kWh-unit can be used daily to extend the environmental and cost benefits of solar after the sun has gone down.

The home energy battery, which comes with a 10-year warranty, is designed to be mounted on a wall. Tesla’s selling price to installers is $3,500 for 10 kWh and $3,000 for 7 kWh. The costs don’t include installation or the inverter that converts direct current power to alternating current for use in the home. Deliveries will begin this summer.

The Powerpack will be sold in 100 kWh units and can be scaled up into multi gigawatt-hour class. The Powerpacks are priced a $250 a kilowatt-hour.

Demand for Powerpack is high, despite the poor economics of its 7 kWh daily cycling unit. Tesla did not break out reservations for the 10 kWh and 7 kWh units.

“The economics in the U.S,. with rare exception, are more expensive than utilities,” Musk admitted. “If someone wants to do daily cycling off-grid, it’s going to be more expensive than being on-grid. That doesn’t mean people won’t buy it. There are people who want to go off-grid on principle, or they just want to be independent.”

However, the 7 kWh battery does make economic sense in certain markets overseas, particularly in Germany and Australia because of tariffs and the electricity-rate structures in those countries, said Tesla co-founder and Chief Technology Officer JB Straubel.

Also on Wednesday, Tesla Motors TSLA 1.18% reported that its first-quarter revenue grew nearly 52% to $939.9 million, over the same period last year. The company also reported that its losses tripled to $154 million in the quarter, or $1.22 per share.

**DaFace** · 05-07-2015, 03:27 PM

The thing I admire about Musk is that all of his businesses are designed to work together toward a common goal of 1) protecting the planet and 2) getting us off of it in case shit goes down. SolarCity makes solar panels that can be used to power charging stations for Teslas. Tesla makes control systems that are used by SpaceX in the command capsule. Tesla's batteries can work with SolarCity's panels to provide a little more flexibility. Hell, even the hyperloop idea was meant to use solar panels to power the whole thing.

He also has an insane ability to take ideas that are about 5-10 years before their time and somehow find ways to make them a reality.

I'm a huge fan.

Stewie · 05-07-2015, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace

The thing I admire about Musk is that all of his businesses are designed to work together toward a common goal of 1) protecting the planet and 2) getting us off of it in case shit goes down. SolarCity makes solar panels that can be used to power charging stations for Teslas. Tesla makes control systems that are used by SpaceX in the command capsule. Tesla's batteries can work with SolarCity's panels to provide a little more flexibility. Hell, even the hyperloop idea was meant to use solar panels to power the whole thing.

He also has an insane ability to take ideas that are about 5-10 years before their time and somehow find ways to make them a reality.

I'm a huge fan.

I admire Musk, too. He's trying. The problem is that battery manufacturing is one of the most energy intensive and polluting businesses out there.

**DaFace** · 05-07-2015, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewie

I admire Musk, too. He's trying. The problem is that battery manufacturing is one of the most energy intensive and polluting businesses out there.

For sure, but the guy is currently sending rockets to the space station. Give him time.

ThaVirus · 05-07-2015, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace

The thing I admire about Musk is that all of his businesses are designed to work together toward a common goal of 1) protecting the planet and 2) getting us off of it in case shit goes down. SolarCity makes solar panels that can be used to power charging stations for Teslas. Tesla makes control systems that are used by SpaceX in the command capsule. Tesla's batteries can work with SolarCity's panels to provide a little more flexibility. Hell, even the hyperloop idea was meant to use solar panels to power the whole thing.

He also has an insane ability to take ideas that are about 5-10 years before their time and somehow find ways to make them a reality.

I'm a huge fan.

Agreed.

**BigRedChief** · 05-07-2015, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcfanXIII

Musk is an extremely intelligent guy, with shitloads of money. Even with the limitations this battery has, I suspect within the next 10-15 years they will have overcome the hurdles facing them now. These are basically beta versions.

Musk just finds ways to get shit done. Guarantee you he has a plan for these batteries. This is not the end game but just the start.

Mr. Laz · 05-07-2015, 05:41 PM

Anything that pushes battery tech forward is good.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 05-07-2015, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Stifle Edith.

As surface distasteful as these taxes are. they aren't disincentives, and they aren't partisan. Solar tied to grid, just like electric automobiles, use infrastructure without consuming the resources that pay for said infrastructure.

**Bob Dole** · 05-07-2015, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewie

This is not a beta version. It's rehashed technology wrapped in a ribbon by Musk and people think it's an advancement. It's not. I feel bad for the people lining up for this because they'll be disappointed.

Really? You have a better solar power storage unit? Bob Dole would like to buy it if you do.

**Baby Lee** · 05-07-2015, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Dole

Really? You have a better solar power storage unit? Bob Dole would like to buy it if you do.

Not even sure where to start.

Depends on what 'better' means for you in particular.

Also depends on what you envision when you say 'solar power storage.'

As well as a number of other implicit questions.

But yeah, the point that isn't so much a tech leap as a marketing and scaling commitment remains.

aturnis · 05-07-2015, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloucesterChief

Only high demand because some governments put heavy taxes and tariffs on electricity.

This isn't true at all.

This makes renewable energy financially feasible for every corporation in America.

The financial threshold set by corporate America for energy storage was $350/kwh, HALF of the current market of $700+/kwh. Musk made it crazy attractive for large corporations at $250/kwh for the larger scalable Powerpack at $25,000 for 100,000kwh

Wal-Mart for instance, America's solar leader will be able to bottle sunlight and sell it back to the grid. Which will then be sold to you.

Yes. You cannot escape it. You WILL be giving your money to Wal-Mart. One way, or another.

aturnis · 05-07-2015, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Good for him, hopefully the free market produces these types of alternatives and keeps Obama and the taxpayers' money out.

So once every century we need to "pray" for a self made billionaire to run a company for no compensation with the goal to do good for the world?

aturnis · 05-07-2015, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat

The Republicans lead the charge on the other side. Taxing people because they went solar.

Lol!

aturnis · 05-07-2015, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Stifle Edith.

As surface distasteful as these taxes are. they aren't disincentives, and they aren't partisan. Solar tied to grid, just like electric automobiles, use infrastructure without consuming the resources that pay for said infrastructure.

In many cases, they're forced to.

**DaFace** · 05-07-2015, 07:01 PM

Fun read about Elon that was published today from Wait But Why (pretty interesting blog in general) if anyone's interested:

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/05/elon-m...ddest-man.html

Just be warned: WBW is a VERY in-depth blog. Pull up a chair - you'll be here a while.

GloucesterChief · 05-07-2015, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturnis

This isn't true at all.

This makes renewable energy financially feasible for every corporation in America.

The financial threshold set by corporate America for energy storage was $350/kwh, HALF of the current market of $700+/kwh. Musk made it crazy attractive for large corporations at $250/kwh for the larger scalable Powerpack at $25,000 for 100,000kwh

Wal-Mart for instance, America's solar leader will be able to bottle sunlight and sell it back to the grid. Which will then be sold to you.

Yes. You cannot escape it. You WILL be giving your money to Wal-Mart. One way, or another.

Considering that electrical prices are in cents per kilowatt hour in the US? No, not economical at all.

05-06-2015, 10:20 PM
Pitt Gorilla Banned! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: NOT Columbia, MO 65201 Casino cash: $2960194	Elon Musk: Demand for Tesla's home battery is 'crazy off the hook' https://fortune.com/2015/05/06/elon-...-home-battery/ Demand for Tesla’s energy storage batteries are so high that the company’s Nevada gigafactory could dedicate all of its production to the home and utility products, CEO Elon Musk says. Tesla CEO Elon Musk was his usual effusive self in describing demand for his company’s new Powerwall home batteries for storing home solar energy, unveiled last week at a splashy event outside Los Angeles. He called the 38,000 pre-orders “crazy off the hook” while acknowledging that his company’s production can’t keep up. “There’s like no way we could possibly satisfy demand this year,” Musk told analysts Wednesday during its first-quarter earnings call. “We’re basically sold out through the middle of next year.” Musk is making good on his promise to revolutionize the auto industry with his electric carmaking upstart. Now he has set his sights on another target: energy. Musk’s long-term vision for Tesla Energy is bold—he expects global sales and to “fundamentally change the way the world uses energy.” But even he seemed surprised by interest in the energy storage products. The level of demand has been so large the executive team is investigating whether it should boost capacity for stationary storage battery packs at its so-called “gigafactory” currently under construction near Reno, Nev. In addition to home batteries, Tesla has come up with a bigger battery for commercial use and utilities, called Powerpack. Customers have pre-ordered 2,500 of those. Musk cast the demand as a bit deceiving. He described the reservations as the equivalent of 25,000 packs because a typical utility or heavy industrial customer would require at least 10 of the packs. Using a somewhat similar calculation, Tesla expects the average home customer to order 1.5 to 2 of its smaller Powerwall units. If that prediction is correct, that would mean orders for as many as 60,000 Powerwall home battery packs. About one-third of the battery pack production capacity at the gigafactory has been reserved for energy storage. However, Musk said the company could increase that capacity by as much as 50% because of unexpectedly high demand. “The sheer volume of demand is just staggering,” he said. “We could easily have the entire gigafactory just do storage.” Even if Tesla does boost capacity, battery packs for the Model S and the highly anticipated Model X SUV are still the priority, Musk added. Powerwall, a sleek suitcase-sized lithium-ion battery designed for homeowners to store energy, comes in 7 kilowatt-hour and 10 kWh sizes. Both units are meant to be combined with solar panels. The 10 kWh home unit is designed as a source of backup power, while 7 kWh-unit can be used daily to extend the environmental and cost benefits of solar after the sun has gone down. The home energy battery, which comes with a 10-year warranty, is designed to be mounted on a wall. Tesla’s selling price to installers is $3,500 for 10 kWh and $3,000 for 7 kWh. The costs don’t include installation or the inverter that converts direct current power to alternating current for use in the home. Deliveries will begin this summer. The Powerpack will be sold in 100 kWh units and can be scaled up into multi gigawatt-hour class. The Powerpacks are priced a $250 a kilowatt-hour. Demand for Powerpack is high, despite the poor economics of its 7 kWh daily cycling unit. Tesla did not break out reservations for the 10 kWh and 7 kWh units. “The economics in the U.S,. with rare exception, are more expensive than utilities,” Musk admitted. “If someone wants to do daily cycling off-grid, it’s going to be more expensive than being on-grid. That doesn’t mean people won’t buy it. There are people who want to go off-grid on principle, or they just want to be independent.” However, the 7 kWh battery does make economic sense in certain markets overseas, particularly in Germany and Australia because of tariffs and the electricity-rate structures in those countries, said Tesla co-founder and Chief Technology Officer JB Straubel. Also on Wednesday, Tesla Motors TSLA 1.18% reported that its first-quarter revenue grew nearly 52% to $939.9 million, over the same period last year. The company also reported that its losses tripled to $154 million in the quarter, or $1.22 per share.
Posts: 46,031

05-07-2015, 03:27 PM	#31
DaFace Kind of a mod Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Donkey Land Casino cash: $2036899	The thing I admire about Musk is that all of his businesses are designed to work together toward a common goal of 1) protecting the planet and 2) getting us off of it in case shit goes down. SolarCity makes solar panels that can be used to power charging stations for Teslas. Tesla makes control systems that are used by SpaceX in the command capsule. Tesla's batteries can work with SolarCity's panels to provide a little more flexibility. Hell, even the hyperloop idea was meant to use solar panels to power the whole thing. He also has an insane ability to take ideas that are about 5-10 years before their time and somehow find ways to make them a reality. I'm a huge fan.
Posts: 51,768

05-07-2015, 05:41 PM	#36
Mr. Laz Don't Tease Me Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: KS Casino cash: $11047037	Anything that pushes battery tech forward is good. __________________
Posts: 95,626

05-07-2015, 07:01 PM	#44
DaFace Kind of a mod Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Donkey Land Casino cash: $2036899	Fun read about Elon that was published today from Wait But Why (pretty interesting blog in general) if anyone's interested: http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/05/elon-m...ddest-man.html Just be warned: WBW is a VERY in-depth blog. Pull up a chair - you'll be here a while. Last edited by DaFace; 05-07-2015 at 07:24 PM..
Posts: 51,768