***Official 2024 STL Cardinals Thread ***

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

TON couldn't stay healthy for more than 80 games a season, that one ain't on the Cards and we will see how it plays out.

Hicks tearing it up as a starter is a whole different story.

A portion of the TON thing is absolutely on the Cards. Olli destroyed any chance of repairing that relationship with his bullshit.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

A portion of the TON thing is absolutely on the Cards. Olli destroyed any chance of repairing that relationship with his bullshit.

Weird how his health suddenly declined and got real mysterious shortly after the manager shit on him for no reason and then the organization threw him under the bus to protect their sock-puppet manager.

Can't imagine why.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Weird how his health suddenly declined and got real mysterious shortly after the manager shit on him for no reason and then the organization threw him under the bus to protect their sock-puppet manager.

Can't imagine why.

Come on man, lets not get too revisionist history here. His health didn't suddenly decline he had 1 outlier year he played in 141 games.

The Marmol incident was last year correct?

TON games played in STL he averaged 81 games a year with Shildt as his manager. He averaged 80 games a season his entire 5 year stint in STL.

2018 - 61 - Matheny fired Schildt interim
2019- 60 Shildt manger
2020- 51 - Shildt Manager
2021-141 ( amazing) Shildt manager
2022 - 90 Marmol
2023- 71 Marmol

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

TON couldn't stay healthy for more than 80 games a season, that one ain't on the Cards and we will see how it plays out.

Hicks tearing it up as a starter is a whole different story.

Yes it is.

Because it's EVERYONE. If it were just O'Neill I'd listen. It's every single guy that leaves this organization. O'Neill, Randy, Garcia, Thomas, Hicks, Gallen, Alcantara.

You could build the fundamentals of a WS roster with nothing but our cast-offs. When the Rays acquire a player, he's on my fantasy baseball radar immediately. I know they're going to get good production out of the guy. When we TRADE a guy, I do the same thing. Because this organization for the last 10 years or so had reduced the productivity of every single player on its roster by about 20%.

If Dylan Carlson gets traded, RUN to pick him up off waivers. Liberatore? Grab him.

Because there's not a single person this franchise won't **** up. They broke Nolan Arenado, FFS.

It's a rotten organization and O'Neill is just part of the same trend they've shown across the board. They're unwilling to work with players to maximize what they are and instead hammer them for what they aren't.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yes it is.

Because it's EVERYONE. If it were just O'Neill I'd listen. It's every single guy that leaves this organization. O'Neill, Randy, Garcia, Thomas, Hicks, Gallen, Alcantara.

You could build the fundamentals of a WS roster with nothing but our cast-offs. When the Rays acquire a player, he's on my fantasy baseball radar immediately. I know they're going to get good production out of the guy. When we TRADE a guy, I do the same thing. Because this organization for the last 10 years or so had reduced the productivity of every single player on its roster by about 20%.

If Dylan Carlson gets traded, RUN to pick him up off waivers. Liberatore? Grab him.

Because there's not a single person this franchise won't **** up. They broke Nolan Arenado, FFS.

It's a rotten organization and O'Neill is just part of the same trend they've shown across the board. They're unwilling to work with players to maximize what they are and instead hammer them for what they aren't.

Then they trade them away when there values are reduced. I would say send Walker down, but apparently no one can teach down there either.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

They were bragging about the crowd on the broadcast lulz and panned to the only full area. What a pathetic organization. Lying sacks of shit.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Worst outfield in baseball....not a damn one worth a shit....then you look at the guys they let go and it would be a damn fine group

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brioni

Worst outfield in baseball....not a damn one worth a shit....then you look at the guys they let go and it would be a damn fine group

Impossible.

There's a logjam. I know because Ricky Horton keeps saying so.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Impossible.

There's a logjam. I know because Ricky Horton keeps saying so.

Speaking of embarrassing that a major league team has as an announcer. It's unbelievable how low this organization is on EVERY damn level

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brioni

Worst outfield in baseball....not a damn one worth a shit....then you look at the guys they let go and it would be a damn fine group

Your hate for Nootbar is so ****ing insane at this point.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Your hate for Nootbar is so ****ing insane at this point.

Not really. Brandon Marsh is what you think Noot is (and Marsh is a much better hiiter) and he hits ****ing 8th

Again as AN END OF THE ORDER/MAJORITY PLATOON GUY he is FINE. What about this don't you understand??? It's the playing in a prime lineup spot that's the problem

[DJ's left nut]

Alcantara is the sort of thing that a team SHOULDN'T miss on. They should've been able to identify that sort of thing better than we could. And it wasn't as though it took 5 years in the minors for Alcantara to hit. He raced through our system and we gave up on him far too early. He was immediately in the bigs in Miami and showing signs of breaking out even as a rookie. In that rookie season you could tell that if you could just harness his command a bit and find more snap on a breaker to miss bats, he was going to be an awfully good pitcher. Those are guys a good organization who has brought him along just cannot miss.

And honestly, given our track record over the last 10 years, do you really have any confidence at all that he'd have amounted to anything here? Gallen probably would've - we like that sort of profile. Alcantara would've been lost in relief just like Hicks and Rosenthal before him.

Taveras wasn't going to be very good anyway, IMO. Swing was too long. He was never as advertised. He was going to be another in the long line of Cardinal player development failures. Him dying gave Mozeliak an out that he wouldn't have had.

As for Piscotty - do you recall what put Piscotty on the prospect map to begin with? It wasn't the Cardinals - kid went to Driveline and rebuilt his swing after 2 years of circling the drain in the minors. That we got any sort of prospect value from him at all wasn't even a result of the Cardinal player development system. But/for his own initiative, he'd have never been in the big leagues anyway.

And Allen Craig was a late arriving rookie who got hurt at 29 years old. He wasn't ever going to have some long and productive career. He wasn't an 'old man skill' player - he was a poor mans Arenado. See ball, hit ball. The injury was a brick wall that brought him to a screeching halt, but he was going to start downhill soon anyway. That's just the aging curve for players like him.

These issues that people use to justify a decade of Cardinal malaise just don't check out for me. Garcia's the only one that really qualifies as bad luck but again - with a broad track record of ALWAYS moving on from the wrong guy, are we really all that confident that it wasn't the Cardinals that were the reason he was stalled out in the first place? Certainly seems to be the case.

[Rams Fan]

I don't think Alcantara would've amounted to much if he had stayed given the track record of pitching development, but I think it is more justifiable to have traded him (young pitchers with control issues who can throw fast flame out all the time) for Ozuna than giving up on Gallen.

Not sure we can really say one way or another on Taveras given the sample size, but given his status and hype, I don't think we would've known for another year or 2.

From what I remember with Piscotty was that he was an above average hitter that got on base in the minors but had no position.

Craig probably would've had 2-3 years left of being above average hitter and then would have been average for a bit. The decline wouldn't have been as stark.

And with Garcia, I think that's the most defensible one for luck. Again, teams had 2 opportunities to get him for free and they didn't. It's not exactly like the Rangers thought he'd be great either.

The pitching development and decision making deserves to be criticized much more than the position players. Tommy Edman had a 6 WAR season and 2 other seasons above 3 WAR. That's insane.

I think Mo should be gone.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

The pitching development and decision making deserves to be criticized much more than the position players. Tommy Edman had a 6 WAR season and 2 other seasons above 3 WAR. That's insane.

I think Mo should be gone.

And they ****ing moved him to CF. So they could continue to try to force Gorman in at 2b when he's - maybe - a 3b. And in all likelihood a LFer.

They can't even take their Ws worth a damn.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And they ****ing moved him to CF. So they could continue to try to force Gorman in at 2b when he's - maybe - a 3b. And in all likelihood a LFer.

They can't even take their Ws worth a damn.

Not sure if I said it here or elsewhere, but I was wanting them to sign a CF to at least be able to platoon with Carlson or make it possible to have Walker play the OF less.

A Winn/Edman IF could be so lethal. Edman is probably my favorite Cardinal currently, though, and I argued 2 years ago that signing Contreras over Trea Turner would be a bigger upgrade to the team (and I still will die on that hill). Edman is super under appreciated.

I have no problem with playing Gorman at 2B, but the issue becomes WTF do you do with Walker. He isn't someone who should be in the OF. They should move on from Goldschmidt to make him room for him and allow Edman to be in the field more often as well as giving Gorman opportunities to DH more. But that won't happen.