*****The Tanoh Kpassagnon Thread*****

[Dante84]

The #Chiefs take Villanova DE/OLB Tanoh Kpassagnon.

He's 6'6", 289 pounds and had 21.5 TFL last year.

— BJ Kissel (@ChiefsReporter) April 29, 2017

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Iconic

Plot twist: We are dumping Houston and tagging/trading Ford. Tanoh and Speaks are part of the changing of guards and will be our cheap new age pass rushers. It's all apart of Veach's diabolical plan.

Then fire Veach now and get it over with.

[threebag]

Kpass is going to be a monster

[Iconic]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Then fire Veach now and get it over with.

You never know it could work.

Speaks has flashed albiet he's not remotely close to what we have now. Tanoh looks like he has potential whenever we see him on the field but he can't ever grow unless he gets PT. I feel like with a seasons worth of experience both these guys could be a whole lot better. Obviously dumping Ford and Houston is reeruned but I wouldn't mind trading one of them in exchange for the guys behind them getting more PT and extra draft capital.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Iconic

You never know it could work.

Speaks has flashed albiet he's not remotely close to what we have now. Tanoh looks like he has potential whenever we see him on the field but he can't ever grow unless he gets PT. I feel like with a seasons worth of experience both these guys could be a whole lot better. Obviously dumping Ford and Houston is reeruned but I wouldn't mind trading one of them in exchange for the guys behind them getting more PT and extra draft capital.

I guess I'm one of the few that doesn't see KPass' potential. I think he's a completely wasted draft pick and I hope they don't spend another minute on it. Draft a real pass rusher and be done with it.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rudy tossed tigger's salad

Bulk him up and have him replace Bailey. Paying Bailey is not necessary.

Speaks and K-Pass should both be put in-line, IMO.

Maybe next time try drafting more OLBs to play OLB.

[alpha_omega]

Frankly, i forgot he was on the team.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Iconic

You never know it could work.

Speaks has flashed albiet he's not remotely close to what we have now. Tanoh looks like he has potential whenever we see him on the field but he can't ever grow unless he gets PT. I feel like with a seasons worth of experience both these guys could be a whole lot better. Obviously dumping Ford and Houston is reeruned but I wouldn't mind trading one of them in exchange for the guys behind them getting more PT and extra draft capital.

If you could tag/trade Ford for at/near 1st round value, I think you have to do it.

He's not Mack but you'd be getting about half what the Raiders got for Mack at that point (and I think it's fair to say that, in hindsight, the Raiders should've gotten even more).

The league has plenty of teams without enough talent to spend up to the cap anyway; they simply don't have guys that are worth the extensions and great pass rushers aren't going to want to sign with teams that have shitty offenses because they'll never get to do what they're good at. But if they tag/trade for one, they get the time to get that extension in place early.

I think a 1st is probably more than we'd get but if you could get in the early 2nd; somewhere in the 30s - boy that would be a tough pill to swallow but probably the right move to make.

But they'd better put that pick to better use than Breeland !@#$ing Speaks...

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

If you could tag/trade Ford for at/near 1st round value, I think you have to do it.

He's not Mack but you'd be getting about half what the Raiders got for Mack at that point (and I think it's fair to say that, in hindsight, the Raiders should've gotten even more).

The league has plenty of teams without enough talent to spend up to the cap anyway; they simply don't have guys that are worth the extensions and great pass rushers aren't going to want to sign with teams that have shitty offenses because they'll never get to do what they're good at. But if they tag/trade for one, they get the time to get that extension in place early.

I think a 1st is probably more than we'd get but if you could get in the early 2nd; somewhere in the 30s - boy that would be a tough pill to swallow but probably the right move to make.

But they'd better put that pick to better use than Breeland !@#$ing Speaks...

Man, with the window being what it is, I just don't know that you can do that. I was on board with the tag and trade at first, but whats the likelihood you replace Ford with an even adequate pass rusher? If Speaks is what they are looking for in a pass rusher, well, then I'd just keep Ford.

The Defense needs some changes for sure and with the extensions that need to be done, I'm not sure how they're gonna do that.

As much as we all love Jones I don't know that i'd be keen on paying him. Defense these days seems like you've gotta have 11 good solid players on it. If you sink so much money into some of these that you've gotta go young and with draft picks elsewhere, with this regime's history of drafting defense I don't know.

Ultimately, they're gonna have to hit on some defensive draft picks somewhere.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Man, with the window being what it is, I just don't know that you can do that. I was on board with the tag and trade at first, but whats the likelihood you replace Ford with an even adequate pass rusher? If Speaks is what they are looking for in a pass rusher, well, then I'd just keep Ford.

The Defense needs some changes for sure and with the extensions that need to be done, I'm not sure how they're gonna do that.

As much as we all love Jones I don't know that i'd be keen on paying him. Defense these days seems like you've gotta have 11 good solid players on it. If you sink so much money into some of these that you've gotta go young and with draft picks elsewhere, with this regime's history of drafting defense I don't know.

Ultimately, they're gonna have to hit on some defensive draft picks somewhere.

Yeah, I have a philosophical disagreement with the "the window" crowd.

Yes, I know our best time to win a championship is likely between now and 2020. I'm also not willing to just say "well, turn out the lights, the party's over" afterwards.

My eye is still on the 5-year health of the organization and if we can move Ford for a guy who will cost against the Cap in the next 4 years what Ford would cost in 1, I'm going to do that if I think there's even a 40% chance we can get a reasonably productive starter with that pick.

We're going to find out really quickly if Veach agrees with me; this offseason will answer the question. If he goes spending up to the cap for the next 2 seasons, it's obvious he's in 'damn the torpedoes' mode and frankly I'm going to disagree with that. It's going to lead to a SHIT product on the field by 2022 and a total teardown. I'm unwilling to concede that as an inevitability. Anything that takes 2-3 years of Mahomes prime and flushes them is a bad decision.

This is a 15 year investment and every decision should be made with an eye on maximizing that entire 15 year period, not a couple of 3 year windows over that timeline.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yeah, I have a philosophical disagreement with the "the window" crowd.

Yes, I know our best time to win a championship is likely between now and 2020. I'm also not willing to just say "well, turn out the lights, the party's over" afterwards.

My eye is still on the 5-year health of the organization and if we can move Ford for a guy who will cost against the Cap in the next 4 years what Ford would cost in 1, I'm going to do that if I think there's even a 40% chance we can get a reasonably productive starter with that pick.

We're going to find out really quickly if Veach agrees with me; this offseason will answer the question. If he goes spending up to the cap for the next 2 seasons, it's obvious he's in 'damn the torpedoes' mode and frankly I'm going to disagree with that. It's going to lead to a SHIT product on the field by 2022 and a total teardown. I'm unwilling to concede that as an inevitability. Anything that takes 2-3 years of Mahomes prime and flushes them is a bad decision.

This is a 15 year investment and every decision should be made with an eye on maximizing that entire 15 year period, not a couple of 3 year windows over that timeline.

I don't know that it would lead to a total tear down if you can still draft well and as long as you keep Andy and his staff around.

They may go thru a few years where you're having to retool a bit like Seattle has had to do, but that's just part of it.

I feel like you are using the Pats as a model here and that's just not gonna be a possibility. That's just such an abnormal situation of a perfect storm IMO.

You put as much around the guy while he's on his rookie deal and hope by the time that's over that he's ready to carry even more than he does now. In the end, it's gonna be about hitting on draft picks to get cheap labor so that does make sense with the Ford trade.

But you do a little bit of that looking towards the future, you get to the time of a Mahomes extension and he's won a few playoff games with not much else to show for it. So much changes year to year in the NFL with the draft and free agency and the cap that I don't think you ever fully need a tear down as long as you've got your Qb.

Well, the Chiefs have theirs so every year is a pedal to the medal SB year.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

I don't know that it would lead to a total tear down if you can still draft well and as long as you keep Andy and his staff around.

They may go thru a few years where you're having to retool a bit like Seattle has had to do, but that's just part of it.

I feel like you are using the Pats as a model here and that's just not gonna be a possibility. That's just such an abnormal situation of a perfect storm IMO.

You put as much around the guy while he's on his rookie deal and hope by the time that's over that he's ready to carry even more than he does now. In the end, it's gonna be about hitting on draft picks to get cheap labor so that does make sense with the Ford trade.

But you do a little bit of that looking towards the future, you get to the time of a Mahomes extension and he's won a few playoff games with not much else to show for it. So much changes year to year in the NFL with the draft and free agency and the cap that I don't think you ever fully need a tear down as long as you've got your Qb.

Well, the Chiefs have theirs so every year is a pedal to the medal SB year.

If the Chiefs go into the 2022 season having torched rollover year after year, they're ****ed. The tackles will be gone, Kelce will be gone. You'll have enough for Mahomes, Hill and maybe one other part; maybe Jones but even that is likely too rich.

Unless they're extremely smart in building up rollover through early extensions, they're going to have to remake the team. And if you're looking at drafting in the late 20s, early 30s every year, well that's just going to make the degree of difficulty in back-filling damn high.

The only way to do it is to keep a constant eye on the long-term cap and that means doing things like moving Ford to save money NOW that you can toss into an extension for Hill/Jones and keep their long-term AAV's down. And in so doing you get the draft pick that improves the number of darts you get to throw, knowing that you're throwing from further away than most teams.

It's going to be a very difficult balancing act but it will prove impossible, IMO, if he views the next 3 years as a hard window and behaves accordingly.

[O.city]

Things just didn't line up like you'd hope. It's always going to be a juggling act and you want guys to develop and be good, obviously. But when they do like Hill and Jones and Mahomes are, you're gonna run out of money pretty quick.

You can't keep everyone, so you've gotta replace some guys. The coaching staff and development are going to be just as important as talent. I brought it up as an anomaly, but the Pats are obviously something to look at in this kind of situation.

You've gotta figure out who's important, who's not and let some guys walk. Those guys you do plan to let walk, start looking at situations where you can trade them a year early.

This is also where I would get in that we are gonna have to replace Sutton and get someone a bit more innovative and a better developer in here. You aren't gonna have a lot of high dollar vets every year like you've had in the past so sometimes you're gonna have to make due.

[carcosa]

IM PISSED!!!!

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Things just didn't line up like you'd hope. It's always going to be a juggling act and you want guys to develop and be good, obviously. But when they do like Hill and Jones and Mahomes are, you're gonna run out of money pretty quick.

You can't keep everyone, so you've gotta replace some guys. The coaching staff and development are going to be just as important as talent. I brought it up as an anomaly, but the Pats are obviously something to look at in this kind of situation.

You've gotta figure out who's important, who's not and let some guys walk. Those guys you do plan to let walk, start looking at situations where you can trade them a year early.

This is also where I would get in that we are gonna have to replace Sutton and get someone a bit more innovative and a better developer in here. You aren't gonna have a lot of high dollar vets every year like you've had in the past so sometimes you're gonna have to make due.

Exactly - you figure out who you can keep and who you can't. If one of the guys is a 28 yr old speed rusher with a back injury on his resume who could also return you a top 40ish draft pick, then he's one of the guys you decide not to keep.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

If the Chiefs go into the 2022 season having torched rollover year after year, they're ****ed. The tackles will be gone, Kelce will be gone. You'll have enough for Mahomes, Hill and maybe one other part; maybe Jones but even that is likely too rich.

Unless they're extremely smart in building up rollover through early extensions, they're going to have to remake the team. And if you're looking at drafting in the late 20s, early 30s every year, well that's just going to make the degree of difficulty in back-filling damn high.

The only way to do it is to keep a constant eye on the long-term cap and that means doing things like moving Ford to save money NOW that you can toss into an extension for Hill/Jones and keep their long-term AAV's down. And in so doing you get the draft pick that improves the number of darts you get to throw, knowing that you're throwing from further away than most teams.

It's going to be a very difficult balancing act but it will prove impossible, IMO, if he views the next 3 years as a hard window and behaves accordingly.

Sure, but as we see every year, things change so fast. They'll have an eye towards the future for sure, but by 2022 you may have like 5 guys from this current roster still here.

I'd guess that would be Mahomes, Hill and 1 other player. The biggest thing is having these extensions and such in place where you can get out from under them if you need to and well, basically get lucky.

I'm all about them looking towards the future, but if you are making moves in 2018 that will effect 2022, well, I don't think that's right.