Chiefs Chiefs lead Broncos 56-49 (All Time) - Page 4

Prison Bitch · 11-12-2013, 01:29 PM

With an average score of KC 23-20. Only one matchup was in the plaoyffs (

) They both are original AFL franchises in 1960. Kansas City raced out to a 25-2 lead in the series before Denver started turning it around in 1973. Since then it's of course 31-47 in their favor.

Does anyone know why they were so bad early on? Or maybe it's just that we were so good during that time.

Tombstone RJ · 11-12-2013, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Dan Reeves with Elway: 98-60 (62.0%)
Dan Reeves without: 92-105 (46.7%)

We already discussed Bowlen without Elway. I give those two virtually zero credit for anything Elway did.

Well Bowlen did Pay Elway, at one time wasn't Elway the highest paid QB in the NFL? Also, when Elway and Reeves finally could not stand working together any longer (and Reeves drafted Tommy Maddox) Bowlen stuck with Elway and fired Reeves.

I think Bowlen was really instrumental in Elway staying with the Broncos because Reeves was talking about trading Elway to the Giants.

**Rain Man** · 11-12-2013, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

I provided the facts on the records with and without him, I guess I don't see what facts you're providing that dispute them. Your "5 non strike years before and after" is misleading since (a) it ignores the 2-7 strike record they did have before they got him and (b) Elway didn't play 5 years for them, he played 15 and (c) you arbitrarily start with their 1977 team.

So much changes over a 30-year span that you can't attribute any impact to one player. If I took the 15 years or whatever that Elway played and the 15 years before him, I can't really compare those eras. Too much changed. It's better to go with a shorter pre-/post-period where there was a more similar core of players.

However, if you take the entire history of Elway's tenure with the team, they won 63 percent of those games. In the five years before Elway showed up, they won 64 percent. It's pretty clear that Elway didn't turn the franchise around, but rather that the five previous years turned the franchise around.

Prison Bitch · 11-12-2013, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

However, if you take the entire history of Elway's tenure with the team, they won 63 percent of those games. In the five years before Elway showed up, they won 64 percent. It's pretty clear that Elway didn't turn the franchise around, but rather that the five previous years turned the franchise around.

Wow, I just don't know what to say then. They went 2-7 the year before he came, and you act like he stepped into the 49ers situation like Steve Young after Montana. Guess I'll just agree to disagree on this one.

Prison Bitch · 11-12-2013, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

Well Bowlen did Pay Elway, at one time wasn't Elway the highest paid QB in the NFL? Also, when Elway and Reeves finally could not stand working together any longer (and Reeves drafted Tommy Maddox) Bowlen stuck with Elway and fired Reeves. .

An owner decided to pay a perennial Pro Bowl QB, one of the elite players in the league, and kept him over a head coach? I can't tell you how gutsy and impressive that is. Goes totally against the grain.

Tombstone RJ · 11-12-2013, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

So much changes over a 30-year span that you can't attribute any impact to one player. If I took the 15 years or whatever that Elway played and the 15 years before him, I can't really compare those eras. Too much changed. It's better to go with a shorter pre-/post-period where there was a more similar core of players.

However, if you take the entire history of Elway's tenure with the team, they won 63 percent of those games. In the five years before Elway showed up, they won 64 percent. It's pretty clear that Elway didn't turn the franchise around, but rather that the five previous years turned the franchise around.

I think it was a few different factors that permantly change the Broncos into a winning franchise--Elway, an owner who wanted to win and spent the money to win (Pat Bowlen) and a good coach who provided stability and a formula for winning (Dan Reeves). Before these 3 guys came along, yes, the Broncos did have some good success in the mid to late 1970s but it was these guys who sustained the success into and through the 1980s.

Bowlen also hired Mike Shanahan at the right time and that paid off in spades.

Tombstone RJ · 11-12-2013, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

An owner decided to pay a perennial Pro Bowl QB, one of the elite players in the league, and kept him over a head coach? I can't tell you how gutsy and impressive that is. Goes totally against the grain.

Bowlen had to choose between Elway and Reeves and yes, Reeves had a lot of pull within the franchise. Also, it was Bowlen who flat out nixed the trade to the NYG for Elway.

Bowlen sure didn't protect Jay Cutler like he did Elway.

**Rain Man** · 11-12-2013, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Wow, I just don't know what to say then. They went 2-7 the year before he came, and you act like he stepped into the 49ers situation like Steve Young after Montana. Guess I'll just agree to disagree on this one.

So you're arguing that a 9-game strike year should take precedence over the 58 games that preceded it? Were you around for the strike years? They were chaos. They shouldn't have even had Super Bowls in those years. People throw the strike years out of many discussions, and certainly don't give them precedence.

Prison Bitch · 11-12-2013, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

So you're arguing that a 9-game strike year should take precedence over the 58 games that preceded it? Were you around for the strike years? They were chaos. They shouldn't have even had Super Bowls in those years. People throw the strike years out of many discussions, and certainly don't give them precedence.

You can toss the strike year argument from this, it doesn't have any relevance really to any of the main points. According to Pro-football Reference, John Elway has a +30 "WAR" value. 2nd QB all time to Peyton Maggot.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=1868

That implies he was the difference between 8 wins and 10 wins. This matches up perfectly to what Denver did since he left & also what Dan Reeves did without him. Elway was no regular player like you suggest, getting into a nice situation. Numerically, he created it for 15 years there.

vailpass · 11-12-2013, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I only agree with half of that statement.

Heh. I meant you love to hate him; it clearly brings you joy.

**TribalElder** · 11-12-2013, 05:22 PM

KU thread

/Pajama Horse

Prison Bitch · 11-12-2013, 05:22 PM

I never hated Elway at all, he was fun to watch. He went big or he went home, he had spectacular successes and crushing failures. Kinda like Favre in a way. Didn't skate his entire career winning with great teams like Brady or Montana. I can't remember him ever taunting or acting like a bitch when he did lose. And the 1998 playoff game, he was at the end of his career and didn't do much to beat us anyway.

**Rain Man** · 11-12-2013, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vailpass

Heh. I meant you love to hate him; it clearly brings you joy.

We all have our hobbies.

mike_b_284 · 11-12-2013, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

With an average score of KC 23-20. Only one matchup was in the plaoyffs (

) They both are original AFL franchises in 1960. Kansas City raced out to a 25-2 lead in the series before Denver started turning it around in 1973. Since then it's of course 31-47 in their favor.

Does anyone know why they were so bad early on? Or maybe it's just that we were so good during that time.

those damn socks

**Rain Man** · 11-12-2013, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

I never hated Elway at all, he was fun to watch. He went big or he went home, he had spectacular successes and crushing failures. Kinda like Favre in a way. Didn't skate his entire career winning with great teams like Brady or Montana. I can't remember him ever taunting or acting like a bitch when he did lose. And the 1998 playoff game, he was at the end of his career and didn't do much to beat us anyway.

Why don't you marry him, then? Why don't you marry John Elway? John Elway is marrying Prison Bitch, everyone.

(I only did that for the last sentence.)

11-12-2013, 01:29 PM
Prison Bitch Rabbi Goldmann Join Date: Nov 2012 Casino cash: $5450159	Chiefs lead Broncos 56-49 (All Time) With an average score of KC 23-20. Only one matchup was in the plaoyffs () They both are original AFL franchises in 1960. Kansas City raced out to a 25-2 lead in the series before Denver started turning it around in 1973. Since then it's of course 31-47 in their favor. Does anyone know why they were so bad early on? Or maybe it's just that we were so good during that time.
Posts: 87,025

11-12-2013, 05:22 PM	#55
TribalElder Arrowhead Trail of Tears Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: KansasCity Casino cash: $2420441	KU thread /Pajama Horse
Posts: 29,150

11-12-2013, 05:22 PM	#56
Prison Bitch Rabbi Goldmann Join Date: Nov 2012 Casino cash: $5450159	I never hated Elway at all, he was fun to watch. He went big or he went home, he had spectacular successes and crushing failures. Kinda like Favre in a way. Didn't skate his entire career winning with great teams like Brady or Montana. I can't remember him ever taunting or acting like a bitch when he did lose. And the 1998 playoff game, he was at the end of his career and didn't do much to beat us anyway.
Posts: 87,025