Cardinals ***Official 2014 STL Cardinals thread part II*** - Page 7

**BigRedChief** · 06:41 PM

Original thread was getting to large for the board

2011 WS Championship
2012 one win from another WS
2013 two wins from another WS title
2014 Central Division title and NLCS series win (so far)

This is a franchise that has made the postseason 10 times in the last 14 seasons.

Only 1 losing season since 2000.

Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.

Our new Manager has more post season experience than any other manager in baseball, except the Giants manager.

Made the NLCS 8 times

Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.

60 post season wins since 2004. 20+ wins more than any other team.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 08-10-2014, 08:34 PM

Lynn has pitched like a legit number two.

O.city · 08-10-2014, 08:38 PM

Miller has been improved of late as well.

Continuously, it's the anemic offense that will doom this season.

Marcellus · 08-10-2014, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Miller has been improved of late as well.

Continuously, it's the anemic offense that will doom this season.

Unless the team can maintain a 2.0 ERA we are hosed.

O.city · 08-10-2014, 08:40 PM

The good thing is that pitching wins in the playoffs, but I'm not sure we can get there

**BigRedChief** · 08-10-2014, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Lance Lynn may be the most underrated pitcher in Cardinals Nation and in baseball in general.

For good reason I guess but damn he is turning it around. He has always won games but now he seems to be holding the mental part of it together.

He earned it. It was obvious he had talent but he would melt down at the slightest trouble. An error committed by a player, a bad call by the home plate umpire etc. We weren't crazy or not analyzing his production incorrectly.

For whatever reason it has clicked with him this year. He is not letting things bother him. He just moves on to the next pitch.

With this new found stability on the mound he is definitely a good #2 right at this moment.

**BigRedChief** · 08-18-2014, 12:34 PM

Why does it seem like our core future young players are regressing? Seems to me we do a damn fine job finding them. Developing them into big show calibur players. Then they have regressed when they get under Matheny. Wong is the only one who is better than he was last year.

Is this a trend? Small sample size quirk?

From Bernies column on STLtoday:

This opinion may surprise some readers, but if Oscar Taveras is coming up short in his work ethic or hustle, then manager Mike Matheny is absolutely doing the right thing to sit him for a while. A little tough love can be valuable in sending a message to a young player. Matheny did the right thing here.

Now, having said that … Matheny can’t bury Taveras -- not that he will. I was surprised that Matheny dogged Taveras to the media. That goes against Matheny’s service-leadership philosophy and contradicts Matheny's accusations of "cheap shots" taken at his batting coaches by those who cite the team's poor offensive numbers. What Matheny said about Taveras was pretty personal -- unlike what anyone in the media has said or written about John Mabry. Until now, the manager has always kept unpleasantries in house.

Teaching Taveras a lesson is fine but I’d also like to see Matheny be more consistent in getting after veteran players who aren’t grinding or hustling the way they should be. The players who make terrible base-running mistakes; the Cards are awful in this area and Taveras isn't alone. So where's the heat on the others who run the bases poorly? A manager can’t have double standards.

I would also add this: while I support Matheny’s teaching moment here with Taveras, why is it that so many young Cardinals have regressed or stalled after performing so well in 2013? Closer Trevor Rosenthal’s walk rate has more than doubled. His strikeout rate is down. Shelby Miller has regressed and continues to be overly dependent on one pitch, the four-seam fastball. Top pitching prospect Carlos Martinez — so dominant late last season — was demoted to the minors. Matt Adams’ home-run rate has declined dramatically. Reliever Kevin Siegrist — after being sidelined by a forearm strain earlier this season — isn’t as good as what we saw in 2013. And starting pitcher Michael Wacha’s season was derailed by a shoulder-related injury.

On the other hand, second baseman Kolten Wong has made progress. I realize that young players have fluctuations in performance and confidence. And injuries can knock them back. The Cardinals aren’t alone in experiencing this. But Matheny got this gig, in large part, because GM John Mozeliak believed Matheny would do an exceptional job of bringing along the young talent. I think it’s fair to say that the Cardinals have taken a step back in this area in 2014. (I wrote an extensive piece on this; you can read it at STLtoday.com.) And some of this can be attributed to the simple reality of regression to the mean.

Related note: last month Matheny said, “We’re not here for development,” and you know that Mozeliak’s bow tie had to be spinning after that one. It’s going to be a very interesting offseason for the Cardinals.

Marco Polo · 08-18-2014, 12:44 PM

I have never been a fan of the decision to hire Matheny as manager. I think that has been Mo's worst decision thus far.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 08-18-2014, 06:51 PM

Reds bullpen throws 144 pitches yesterday, Jon Jay swings at the first pitch.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 08-18-2014, 07:01 PM

Some of it could be that the pundits and the Cardinals themselves overrated their farm system. It happened to the Royals.

With that said, Mabry and Lilliquist are clowns. No young pitcher on this team has progressed, and that's not an accident. If it weren't for Yadi and Wainwright, Lilliquist's fat ass would be in the fire along with John Mabry, who couldn't teach Tiger Woods how to **** a whore.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 08-18-2014, 07:39 PM

Masterson ****ing blows.

Jewish Rabbi · 08-18-2014, 07:47 PM

Masterson seems to be working out. Couldn't Martinez have done this?

**BigRedChief** · 08-18-2014, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Masterson ****ing blows.

I don't think anyone thought he would ever be better than Westbrook. That was the high bar. Martinez is stretched out but it looks like we are going to need him for the 8th when Neschek moves to the 9th.

I could see Masterson being useful in the playoffs. Bring him in after one of our hard throwers. Let him work one time through the lineup and pull him.

**BigRedChief** · 08-18-2014, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Some of it could be that the pundits and the Cardinals themselves overrated their farm system. It happened to the Royals.

With that said, Mabry and Lilliquist are clowns. No young pitcher on this team has progressed, and that's not an accident. If it weren't for Yadi and Wainwright, Lilliquist's fat ass would be in the fire along with John Mabry, who couldn't teach Tiger Woods how to **** a whore.

Yadi and Waino have a lot of pull for sure, as they should. Rumors galore that Mabry is done after this year. Going to spend more time with the family excuse. Who knows if its BS or not.

Jewish Rabbi · 08-18-2014, 08:22 PM

Descalso not being a sack of shit is a pleasant surprise.

kcpasco · 08-18-2014, 08:28 PM

No Neshek? Come on Matheny WTF.

07-31-2014, 01:23 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3029627 VARSITY	*Official 2014 STL Cardinals thread part II* Original thread was getting to large for the board 2011 WS Championship 2012 one win from another WS 2013 two wins from another WS title 2014 Central Division title and NLCS series win (so far) This is a franchise that has made the postseason 10 times in the last 14 seasons. Only 1 losing season since 2000. Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005. Our new Manager has more post season experience than any other manager in baseball, except the Giants manager. Made the NLCS 8 times Three million attendance? Take it to the bank. 60 post season wins since 2004. 20+ wins more than any other team. Last edited by BigRedChief; 10-07-2014 at 06:41 PM..
Posts: 79,097

08-10-2014, 08:34 PM	#91
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7989572	Lynn has pitched like a legit number two. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,832

08-10-2014, 08:38 PM	#92
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2634064	Miller has been improved of late as well. Continuously, it's the anemic offense that will doom this season.
Posts: 81,323

08-10-2014, 08:40 PM	#94
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2634064	The good thing is that pitching wins in the playoffs, but I'm not sure we can get there
Posts: 81,323

08-18-2014, 12:34 PM	#96
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3029627 VARSITY	Why does it seem like our core future young players are regressing? Seems to me we do a damn fine job finding them. Developing them into big show calibur players. Then they have regressed when they get under Matheny. Wong is the only one who is better than he was last year. Is this a trend? Small sample size quirk? From Bernies column on STLtoday: This opinion may surprise some readers, but if Oscar Taveras is coming up short in his work ethic or hustle, then manager Mike Matheny is absolutely doing the right thing to sit him for a while. A little tough love can be valuable in sending a message to a young player. Matheny did the right thing here. Now, having said that … Matheny can’t bury Taveras -- not that he will. I was surprised that Matheny dogged Taveras to the media. That goes against Matheny’s service-leadership philosophy and contradicts Matheny's accusations of "cheap shots" taken at his batting coaches by those who cite the team's poor offensive numbers. What Matheny said about Taveras was pretty personal -- unlike what anyone in the media has said or written about John Mabry. Until now, the manager has always kept unpleasantries in house. Teaching Taveras a lesson is fine but I’d also like to see Matheny be more consistent in getting after veteran players who aren’t grinding or hustling the way they should be. The players who make terrible base-running mistakes; the Cards are awful in this area and Taveras isn't alone. So where's the heat on the others who run the bases poorly? A manager can’t have double standards. I would also add this: while I support Matheny’s teaching moment here with Taveras, why is it that so many young Cardinals have regressed or stalled after performing so well in 2013? Closer Trevor Rosenthal’s walk rate has more than doubled. His strikeout rate is down. Shelby Miller has regressed and continues to be overly dependent on one pitch, the four-seam fastball. Top pitching prospect Carlos Martinez — so dominant late last season — was demoted to the minors. Matt Adams’ home-run rate has declined dramatically. Reliever Kevin Siegrist — after being sidelined by a forearm strain earlier this season — isn’t as good as what we saw in 2013. And starting pitcher Michael Wacha’s season was derailed by a shoulder-related injury. On the other hand, second baseman Kolten Wong has made progress. I realize that young players have fluctuations in performance and confidence. And injuries can knock them back. The Cardinals aren’t alone in experiencing this. But Matheny got this gig, in large part, because GM John Mozeliak believed Matheny would do an exceptional job of bringing along the young talent. I think it’s fair to say that the Cardinals have taken a step back in this area in 2014. (I wrote an extensive piece on this; you can read it at STLtoday.com.) And some of this can be attributed to the simple reality of regression to the mean. Related note: last month Matheny said, “We’re not here for development,” and you know that Mozeliak’s bow tie had to be spinning after that one. It’s going to be a very interesting offseason for the Cardinals. __________________ Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. -YODA
Posts: 79,097

08-18-2014, 12:44 PM	#97
Marco Polo Veteran Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 41°59.4′N 87°39.6'W Casino cash: $5758908	I have never been a fan of the decision to hire Matheny as manager. I think that has been Mo's worst decision thus far.
Posts: 2,507

08-18-2014, 06:51 PM	#98
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7989572	Reds bullpen throws 144 pitches yesterday, Jon Jay swings at the first pitch. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,832

08-18-2014, 07:01 PM	#99
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7989572	Some of it could be that the pundits and the Cardinals themselves overrated their farm system. It happened to the Royals. With that said, Mabry and Lilliquist are clowns. No young pitcher on this team has progressed, and that's not an accident. If it weren't for Yadi and Wainwright, Lilliquist's fat ass would be in the fire along with John Mabry, who couldn't teach Tiger Woods how to **** a whore. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,832

08-18-2014, 07:39 PM	#100
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7989572	Masterson ****ing blows. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,832

08-18-2014, 07:47 PM	#101
Jewish Rabbi What's up braj? Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Placencia, Belize Casino cash: $2008320	Masterson seems to be working out. Couldn't Martinez have done this?
Posts: 15,589

08-18-2014, 08:22 PM	#104
Jewish Rabbi What's up braj? Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Placencia, Belize Casino cash: $2008320	Descalso not being a sack of shit is a pleasant surprise.
Posts: 15,589

08-18-2014, 08:28 PM	#105
kcpasco MVP Join Date: Sep 2007 Casino cash: $7733463	No Neshek? Come on Matheny WTF.
Posts: 15,477