An open letter to former Slayer drummer Dave Lombardo

[Ace Gunner]

He had to fight through a lot of garbage excuses to get publishing on his own songs -- I'm pretty sure he's having the same lame ass difficulty with them touring.

He's the sound of Slayer as is typical of metal -- drummers are the signature of metal sound. Drum tracks influence the writings in rudimentary ways, hence DL's struggle.

[Gadzooks]

Originally Posted by Buzz_TinBalls

He had to fight through a lot of garbage excuses to get publishing on his own songs -- I'm pretty sure he's having the same lame ass difficulty with them touring.

He's the sound of Slayer as is typical of metal -- drummers are the signature of metal sound. Drum tracks influence the writings in rudimentary ways, hence DL's struggle.

How could anyone give a drummer songwriting/ publishing credit? They get what the band feeds them or nothing at all.
Would you give the bassist equal songwriting credit for coming up with the idea of playing the root notes of a song you wrote?
Unless the "player" puts a spin on a song that changes the dynamic of what was originally written they don't deserve a penny and are expendable.
If you muted the drum track of the majority of Slayer songs you wouldn't notice a huge difference. Plus, you could find any number of session drummers that could play the same part or much better.

Drummers...

[splatbass]

Originally Posted by Gadzooks

How could anyone give a drummer songwriting/ publishing credit? They get what the band feeds them or nothing at all.
Would you give the bassist equal songwriting credit for coming up with the idea of playing the root notes of a song you wrote?

You sound like someone that is not a bass player and doesn't understand bass playing. Take the bass line out of "Money" and see what you have. Take the bass line out of "The Joker" and see what you have. Take the bass line out of any funk song and see what you have. Or Motown, or blues, or any other type of music. There are thousands of songs that would suck balls without the bass line. When you see the girls on the dance floor shaking their butts they are shaking them to the bass. The bass creates the groove, with the drummer. Those are the two essential pieces of a band. The greatest guitar player in the world would sound like shit with a bad drummer or bass player.

[Gadzooks]

Originally Posted by splatbass

You sound like someone that is not a bass player and doesn't understand bass playing. Take the bass line out of "Money" and see what you have. Take the bass line out of "The Joker" and see what you have. Take the bass line out of any funk song and see what you have. Or Motown, or blues, or any other type of music. There are thousands of songs that would suck balls without the bass line. When you see the girls on the dance floor shaking their butts they are shaking them to the bass. The bass creates the groove, with the drummer. Those are the two essential pieces of a band. The greatest guitar player in the world would sound like shit with a bad drummer or bass player.

I said "Would you give the bassist equal songwriting credit for coming up with the idea of playing the root notes of a song you wrote?"

If we're talking Flea or Les Claypool you might have an argument because they're likely to add creativity to what was originally written to the point that it changes the song. When we start talking John Entwhistle there's still an argument but when we start talking Rick Savage from Def Leppard the argument goes out the window.
The vast majority of "bassists" in this world are in it for the pussy and are ****ing useless.
It's a shame because the bass can be so powerful.

[splatbass]

Originally Posted by Gadzooks

I said "Would you give the bassist equal songwriting credit for coming up with the idea of playing the root notes of a song you wrote?"

If we're talking Flea or Les Claypool you might have an argument because they're likely to add creativity to what was originally written to the point that it changes the song. When we start talking John Entwhistle there's still an argument but when we start talking Rick Savage from Def Leppard the argument goes out the window.
The vast majority of "bassists" in this world are in it for the pussy and are ****ing useless.
It's a shame because the bass can be so powerful.

As a professional musician for more than 30 years, including as a bass player, I can tell you you don't know shit about it.

[Gadzooks]

Originally Posted by splatbass

As a professional musician for more than 30 years, including as a bass player, I can tell you you don't know shit about it.

Care to explain? I'm curious since you have yet to argue a single point related to this thread.
BTW- please don't assume I'm ignorant. I can play bass better than Rick Savage on his best day, (that's not saying much). I've also met a man on the street who has played the kazoo through his nose professionally for 43 years.

[splatbass]

Originally Posted by Gadzooks

Care to explain? I'm curious since you have yet to argue a single point related to this thread.
BTW- please don't assume I'm ignorant. I can play bass better than Rick Savage on his best day, (that's not saying much). I've also met a man on the street who has played the kazoo through his nose professionally for 43 years.

I explained in my first post. Not my fault if you don't understand.

Bass has been my main instrument for several decades. I've played classic rock, alternative, metal, punk, blues, jazz, Motown, funk, country and pretty much every other form of popular music you can think of in that time. Bass is an essential part of all of that music. It creates the groove that makes a style what it is. I can literally change the feel of a song by playing a different bass line.

And about the only styles that routinely play only on the root as you said are punk and some metal. Even Rick Savage doesn't just play on the root, although you are correct, he isn't a great bass player.

Now I'm off my soapbox.

One more thing, you can't always tell how good a bass player is by their recorded bass lines. A good bass player plays for the song. Sometimes that means keeping it simple, because that is what works for the music. Michael Anthony is a much better bass player than he appears to be listening to Van Halen, because in VH he plays it simple to keep out of Eddie's way. That it the job of the bass, to support the song.

[Ace Gunner]

Originally Posted by splatbass

As a professional musician for more than 30 years, including as a bass player, I can tell you you don't know shit about it.

this

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by Gadzooks

How could anyone give a drummer songwriting/ publishing credit? They get what the band feeds them or nothing at all.
Would you give the bassist equal songwriting credit for coming up with the idea of playing the root notes of a song you wrote?
Unless the "player" puts a spin on a song that changes the dynamic of what was originally written they don't deserve a penny and are expendable.
If you muted the drum track of the majority of Slayer songs you wouldn't notice a huge difference. Plus, you could find any number of session drummers that could play the same part or much better.

Drummers...

There's a huge difference between song writing and song recording. If Lombardo did indeed "write" or "help write" the music, including the lyrics, then he absolutely deserves credit and compensation. If he was just handed the music (based on someone else laying it out or writing it) and then he played according to the direction of the band, that is, he didn't really add anything or change anything then you are correct.

A band like Credence Clearwater Revival got all their music and direction from one guy--John Fogerty. He wrote the music, he played lead guitar, he fronted the band and he was the lead singer. Most bands aren't like this.

For example Fleetwood Mac had several members writing music and bringing the music in to be recorded. Different members of the band brought in their music with the lyrics, and the others basically said "yes, let's do it" or "no, let's not record this song." It was way more collaborative.

I'm not a big Slayer fan so I don't know who the main influences are in the songs. However Lombardo is an original member so he's probably got some kind of legitimate beef as to why he's not making as much as some of the other guys in the band. Especially if he helped write the music and helped define Slayer's style in the early days due to his creative influence. Did he help with lyrics? Did he help with the format of the songs? Did he help when producing the music? Was he in the studio and there when the tracks were being cut, did he have a say about that? Etc.,

[Gadzooks]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

There's a huge difference between song writing and song recording. If Lombardo did indeed "write" or "help write" the music, including the lyrics, then he absolutely deserves credit and compensation. If he was just handed the music (based on someone else laying it out or writing it) and then he played according to the direction of the band, that is, he didn't really add anything or change anything then you are correct.

A band like Credence Clearwater Revival got all their music and direction from one guy--John Fogerty. He wrote the music, he played lead guitar, he fronted the band and he was the lead singer. Most bands aren't like this.

For example Fleetwood Mac had several members writing music and bringing the music in to be recorded. Different members of the band brought in their music with the lyrics, and the others basically said "yes, let's do it" or "no, let's not record this song." It was way more collaborative.

I'm not a big Slayer fan so I don't know who the main influences are in the songs. However Lombardo is an original member so he's probably got some kind of legitimate beef as to why he's not making as much as some of the other guys in the band. Especially if he helped write the music and helped define Slayer's style in the early days due to his creative influence. Did he help with lyrics? Did he help with the format of the songs? Did he help when producing the music? Was he in the studio and there when the tracks were being cut, did he have a say about that? Etc.,

So we agree.
Most drummers think the final product is at least partially a result of their "creative" input from their percussive instruments.
Drummers...

Very few Drummers actually contribute to the fundamental components of songwriting. Those who do are paid. Those who don't demand that they're paid.