Cardinals ***Official 2016 STL Cardinals Thread*** - Page 109

**BigRedChief** · 04:18 PM

2011 World Series Championship
2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
2015 Central Division title. Won 100 games. Lost in the NLDS.
Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
67 post season wins since 2004. 24+ wins more than any other team.

SI article on our off season, Gives us a "A". ??:
http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/02/12/win...ouis-cardinals

2015 III thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=295296
2015 II thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=293412
2015 I thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=289085

Brent Williams · 07-24-2016, 07:59 PM

You know Maness hasn't had the season he wants, but this may just be what gets him going. A long outting that lets him work out the kinks. He hasnt looked that bad tonight

**BigRedChief** · 07-24-2016, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDj23

Why not let Alex Reyes start this game?

Reyes needs to work on his control. He's the future, not this years help except in September callups.

We will have a new CBA next season. Reyes 6th year may be worth $50 million by then. You really want to start the clock ticking on the kid this year?

If he hits his ceiling, we wont be able to keep him beyond 6 years. Lets make sure every one of those 6 years count.

**BigRedChief** · 07-24-2016, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcpasco

60.75 ERA.

The Cardinals didn't think he would ever be anything with him or wouldn't have put him in that spot to start with but from a human being viewpoint, its just not right to do that to a young man with big league dreams. Twitter and social media is killing the young man.

It has to be crushing, we get to see mom and dad, grandma etc reactions at the same time on national TV.

I want to watch the agony of defeat I'd youtube old Wide World of Sports clips.

Hello, Mrs Mayers. John Mozeliak. I'm sorry about what happened to Mike tonight. How can I make it up to you all ? pic.twitter.com/HeDMej1gwB
— BBQ Bob (@CardinalTales) July 25, 2016

jd1020 · 07-25-2016, 07:40 AM

Aroldis Chapman may be on his way back to the Central wearing a Cubs uniform, and I'm about to lose my shit over what the Cubs are ****ing offering.

Chiefspants · 07-25-2016, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

Aroldis Chapman may be on his way back to the Central wearing a Cubs uniform, and I'm about to lose my shit over what the Cubs are ****ing offering.

Thank you in advance for setting the market for Wade Davis.

jd1020 · 07-25-2016, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

Thank you in advance for setting the market for Wade Davis.

It's actually just ridiculous the names being rumored in the deal.

It's essentially Castro, Torres, Warren, and 2 others for 2 months of Chapman. That is the dumbest ****ing thing I've ever read. If there is no extension or someone coming with Chapman like a Acevedo or something then Theo just went full reerun.

DJ's left nut · 07-25-2016, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDj23

Hang Rosenthal or Maness out to dry. This kid doesn't deserve this.

Why is Mozeliak getting barbecued for this?

Mayers is a 24 yr old former 3rd round pick who's put up outstanding ERAs in both AA and AAA this year (over 18 starts; so a notable sample size). He's shown exactly the kind of command that should've allowed him to go out there and eat 5-6 innings while giving up 3-4 runs.

There's no way the Cards could've known that he'd wet himself like that. We've had several kids come to the show over the last 3-4 years with lesser pedigrees than his and not allow the moment to be too big for them.

The Cards made a fine decision to call him up. Sometimes the guy they turn to just isn't up for it. Cooney's first start looked very similar last year but he was at least able to gut through a few outs. Mayers just ****ing folded.

I hope he gets another shot at it, but some guys just don't show themselves capable of handling the pressure. There's no way to know that until they're thrown into the fire.

That wasn't Mozeliak's fault.

DJ's left nut · 07-25-2016, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

It's actually just ridiculous the names being rumored in the deal.

It's essentially Castro, Torres, Warren, and 2 others for 2 months of Chapman. That is the dumbest ****ing thing I've ever read. If there is no extension or someone coming with Chapman like a Acevedo or something then Theo just went full reerun.

At the same time, where is Torres playing in the future? And Warren's a mopup man; guys ceiling is 5th starter - who cares? Oh, and who the hell is Castro? Are you trying to roll the Starlin trade back into this one because it netted Warren? That's just silly; that ship is sailed, the cost is sunk.

If you can improve your WS odds by, what, 10% at the cost of a blocked prospect and back of the rotation starter, why the hell wouldn't you? It's been over a century.

I guess the other 2 guys could swing it, but if they're deep minor leaguers or organizational filler (guys in the 15-20 range; likely JAGs), then who gives a shit?

jd1020 · 07-25-2016, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

At the same time, where is Torres playing in the future? And Warren's a mopup man; guys ceiling is 5th starter - who cares? Oh, and who the hell is Castro? Are you trying to roll the Starlin trade back into this one because it netted Warren? That's just silly; that ship is sailed, the cost is sunk.

If you can improve your WS odds by, what, 10% at the cost of a blocked prospect and back of the rotation starter, why the hell wouldn't you? It's been over a century.

I guess the other 2 guys could swing it, but if they're deep minor leaguers or organizational filler (guys in the 15-20 range; likely JAGs), then who gives a shit?

Either way you look at it they gave them Castro and got nothing for it if they send Warren back in the deal, making it by itself a terrible trade.

Torres alone is an overpay for a rental reliever. No other team is offering anything close to the Cubs. Rumored offers from other teams are centered around #60-70 prospects. I have no problem with trading him because he has no future with the team. But your 2018 starting rotation consists of only Lester and Hendricks. You could look to package Torres for a controllable young SP to help towards the dynasty you are building. Dumping him for a one shot deal is just ****ing stupid.

2 years ago Andrew Miller was pitching like Chapman in a walk year and that deal including a #70ish prospect as the headliner.

Theo is doubling down on stupid with this deal if its completed. He better damn well hope they win a WS this year or at the very least re-sign Chapman for a few years.

DJ's left nut · 07-25-2016, 09:15 AM

Of course the Castro trade was a terrible trade. I don't think that's arguable (hell, it wasn't arguable from the moment it was made). But again, that's dead and gone. It just doesn't matter when analyzing this trade. If you included CJ Edwards in there instead, would it 'be like trading Castro' because he's similarly valuable to Warren? Of course not. The Castro trade has no bearing on this one.

I like Rondon; I think he's a hell of a pitcher. But don't tell me you aren't nervous about him in the playoffs. Hell, I just own him in a couple of fantasy leagues and it seems like the guy blows a save or takes an L every week at this point. Strop in the 8th? {shudder}

The Cubs absolutely need someone like Chapman. And if they offer the same thing everyone else is offering, well they may just get left holding nothing.

Torres is a 19 yr old in High A. The other guys being offered have lower ceilings, yes, but by and large they're all closer to the majors and have higher floors. Torres could be a stud, but as is the case with any low minor leaguer, he is just as likely to be jack shit.

The Cubs literally have more young SSs than they have places to play them. If Torres is what it takes to lock that team into playoff shape, I just don't see how you could get that upset by moving him.

This is what 'all-in' looks like. It's scary as shit sometimes but ask the Royals how it feels when it works out for you.

**BigRedChief** · 07-25-2016, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

It's actually just ridiculous the names being rumored in the deal.

It's essentially Castro, Torres, Warren, and 2 others for 2 months of Chapman. That is the dumbest ****ing thing I've ever read. If there is no extension or someone coming with Chapman like a Acevedo or something then Theo just went full reerun.

If you win the WS, you will think it was a good deal. You falter in the playoffs, its a shit deal. Thats the nature of trade deadline deals.

Chiefspants · 07-25-2016, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

If you win the WS it seems to be a good deal.

There are two extremes. The 2014 A's and the 2015 Royals.

It's the definition of all-in.

jd1020 · 07-25-2016, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

If you win the WS it seems to be a good deal.

Chapman wont have a chance to win them a WS if Arrieta, Lester, and Lackey continue to shit down their legs and only give 4-5 innings a start.

ChiefsCountry · 07-25-2016, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Why is Mozeliak getting barbecued for this?

Mayers is a 24 yr old former 3rd round pick who's put up outstanding ERAs in both AA and AAA this year (over 18 starts; so a notable sample size). He's shown exactly the kind of command that should've allowed him to go out there and eat 5-6 innings while giving up 3-4 runs.

There's no way the Cards could've known that he'd wet himself like that. We've had several kids come to the show over the last 3-4 years with lesser pedigrees than his and not allow the moment to be too big for them.

The Cards made a fine decision to call him up. Sometimes the guy they turn to just isn't up for it. Cooney's first start looked very similar last year but he was at least able to gut through a few outs. Mayers just ****ing folded.

I hope he gets another shot at it, but some guys just don't show themselves capable of handling the pressure. There's no way to know that until they're thrown into the fire.

That wasn't Mozeliak's fault.

Voice of reason.

DJ's left nut · 07-25-2016, 10:02 AM

Looks like Cubs deal is wrapping up.

Torres, Warren and McKinney being the names tossed about right now. McKinney is...uh....not filler. I guess his struggles at AA have really soured the Cubs on him.

02-13-2016, 01:12 AM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3009627 VARSITY	*Official 2016 STL Cardinals Thread* 2011 World Series Championship 2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance. 2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship 2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance 2015 Central Division title. Won 100 games. Lost in the NLDS. Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons. 67 post season wins since 2004. 24+ wins more than any other team. SI article on our off season, Gives us a "A". ??: http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/02/12/win...ouis-cardinals 2015 III thread: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=295296 2015 II thread: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=293412 2015 I thread: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=289085 Last edited by BigRedChief; 03-30-2016 at 04:18 PM..
Posts: 79,136

07-24-2016, 07:59 PM	#1621
Brent Williams Starter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Quincy,Illinois Casino cash: $9968839	You know Maness hasn't had the season he wants, but this may just be what gets him going. A long outting that lets him work out the kinks. He hasnt looked that bad tonight
Posts: 123

07-25-2016, 07:40 AM	#1624
jd1020 In Search of a Life Join Date: Nov 2010 Casino cash: $7722645	Aroldis Chapman may be on his way back to the Central wearing a Cubs uniform, and I'm about to lose my shit over what the Cubs are ****ing offering.
Posts: 24,331

07-25-2016, 09:15 AM	#1630
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $2869099	Of course the Castro trade was a terrible trade. I don't think that's arguable (hell, it wasn't arguable from the moment it was made). But again, that's dead and gone. It just doesn't matter when analyzing this trade. If you included CJ Edwards in there instead, would it 'be like trading Castro' because he's similarly valuable to Warren? Of course not. The Castro trade has no bearing on this one. I like Rondon; I think he's a hell of a pitcher. But don't tell me you aren't nervous about him in the playoffs. Hell, I just own him in a couple of fantasy leagues and it seems like the guy blows a save or takes an L every week at this point. Strop in the 8th? {shudder} The Cubs absolutely need someone like Chapman. And if they offer the same thing everyone else is offering, well they may just get left holding nothing. Torres is a 19 yr old in High A. The other guys being offered have lower ceilings, yes, but by and large they're all closer to the majors and have higher floors. Torres could be a stud, but as is the case with any low minor leaguer, he is just as likely to be jack shit. The Cubs literally have more young SSs than they have places to play them. If Torres is what it takes to lock that team into playoff shape, I just don't see how you could get that upset by moving him. This is what 'all-in' looks like. It's scary as shit sometimes but ask the Royals how it feels when it works out for you. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 60,626

07-25-2016, 10:02 AM	#1635
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $2869099	Looks like Cubs deal is wrapping up. Torres, Warren and McKinney being the names tossed about right now. McKinney is...uh....not filler. I guess his struggles at AA have really soured the Cubs on him. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 60,626