Knowmo's Homer Thread

[Quesadilla Joe]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/2...power-rankings

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Oh yeah, and other than the fact that one is 7-1 in the playoffs with 1271 yards and 12 TDs, while the other is 0-2 with 115 yards and 1 TD.

Now we're using postseason wins as a benchmark for RB success? We may as well just go ahead and cross Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson and Ladainian Tomlinson off the list of GOATs then..

And you're still not taking touches into account. I don't even have to look Jamaal's stats up in our playoff games. Against Baltimore he had 9 carries for 91 yards and a TD in 2 1/2 quarters before he was inexplicably pulled by Todd Haley and 3 carries for 18 yards in 6 plays against Indy...

[Quesadilla Joe]

TD carried Denver through the playoffs, yeah he had Elway but Elway was far from his prime when TD was there. Bubby Brister might have won us a Super Bowl with those teams.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

I was actually just ****ing around with KnowMo, but now that you mention it...

It's funny that you didn't include number of total touches in the equation here. TD's 1495 to JC's 1154. With JC, you're getting more than a full yard's worth of production with each touch but also a fumble thrown in the mix more frequently.

Davis scored a TD, on average, once every 25 touches to Jamaal's 28 but can we even compare the two? TD played his best four years with a HOFer and the possible GOAT running behind an offensive line that was... Well, let's just say it- cheap as ****. Meanwhile, Jamaal's played on some of the league's worst offenses, in no way because of him, with the likes of Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn.

Out of curiosity, do you think Jamaal's production wouldn't have dwarfed TD's if the two were swapped?

I don't think so. JC simply isn't an every down, pound the defense into submission type back. TD averaged 21 carries per game, JC 13. That gave TD more opportunities, but it is also harder to produce at a high level on a by-down basis when you are a larger part of your team's gameplan. Similarly, a blitzing LB or S is going to have a higher success rate than a DE/OLB who rushes on every down. This is not due to a higher pass-rushing skill level, but the fact that the OL knows that the DE/OLB is coming on every play.

TD's physicality in an era that predated many of the offense-friendly rule changes was an aspect that JC doesn't have, just like JC's elusiveness is an aspect that TD didn't have.

Many of your points can be seen from the flip side as well. JC working with poor QBs opens up opportunities in the passing game for him, many passes that should go downfield end up going to him as a checkdown. YPR is naturally higher than YPC, because incomplete passes and even drops are not counted against the receiver. 16% of JC's touches are passes (21% in 2013), while only 10% of TD's were, which raises JC's yards per touch.

The fact that TD outscored JC on a per-touch basis while also being depended on more as an every down back is staggering.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

I don't think so. JC simply isn't an every down, pound the defense into submission type back. TD averaged 21 carries per game, JC 13. That gave TD more opportunities, but it is also harder to produce at a high level on a by-down basis when you are a larger part of your team's gameplan. Similarly, a blitzing LB or S is going to have a higher success rate than a DE/OLB who rushes on every down. This is not due to a higher pass-rushing skill level, but the fact that the OL knows that the DE/OLB is coming on every play.



TD's physicality in an era that predated many of the offense-friendly rule changes was an aspect that JC doesn't have, just like JC's elusiveness is an aspect that TD didn't have.



Many of your points can be seen from the flip side as well. JC working with poor QBs opens up opportunities in the passing game for him, many passes that should go downfield end up going to him as a checkdown. YPR is naturally higher than YPC, because incomplete passes and even drops are not counted against the receiver. 16% of JC's touches are passes (21% in 2013), while only 10% of TD's were, which raises JC's yards per touch.



The fact that TD outscored JC on a per-touch basis while also being depended on more as an every down back is staggering.

You make a few points but I just have to disagree on most.

The thing I take most issue with is the idea that Jamaal isn't an every down back. He's certainly not a bruiser but he's every bit as much a part of our offensive gameplan as Terrell Davis was. He's basically been our entire offense since he took over the starting role in 09.

Playing with Capt Checkdowns might benefit you a bit in the amount of looks you get in the passing game but I have to guess its an overall negative in that it allows the defense to key on the short passing game and cheat defenders up into the box, which usually means less opportunities in the running game as well.

Jamaal's YPR boosting his YPT is really inconsequential. He averages a full yard more per carry than TD. JC has played six seasons in the NFL and has never averaged less than 5.0. TD's best season as far as YPC is concerned was 5.1.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

More pointing out the fact that TD was likely the best post-season RB in NFL history. For as good as he was all the time, he knew how to turn it on when it mattered the most.

We all know that JC has an incredible career YPC, but TD's post-season YPC was higher.

Dude Charles played one postseason game. Small sample size.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Dude Charles played one postseason game. Small sample size.

Sorry, poorly worded on my part. What I meant was that TD's post-season YPC is higher than JC's career YPC.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

You make a few points but I just have to disagree on most.

The thing I take most issue with is the idea that Jamaal isn't an every down back. He's certainly not a bruiser but he's every bit as much a part of our offensive gameplan as Terrell Davis was. He's basically been our entire offense since he took over the starting role in 09.

Playing with Capt Checkdowns might benefit you a bit in the amount of looks you get in the passing game but I have to guess its an overall negative in that it allows the defense to key on the short passing game and cheat defenders up into the box, which usually means less opportunities in the running game as well.

Jamaal's YPR boosting his YPT is really inconsequential. He averages a full yard more per carry than TD. JC has played six seasons in the NFL and has never averaged less than 5.0. TD's best season as far as YPC is concerned was 5.1.

The bolded is not true. In those 4 years, TD got the ball on over 35% of Denver's plays (over 40% in 1998). In JC's 4 years, he got the ball on just under 28% of the plays. Not being the main driving force behind the offense the way TD was allows JC extra breathing room, boosting his YPC.

Look at it this way: JC has had 8 multi-TD games in his career, TD had 19. They have played in nearly the same number of games (82 vs 86).

[BigMeatballDave]

Who's better at recovering from a knee injury?

[Mother****erJones]

Originally Posted by The Herpe

TD carried Denver through the playoffs, yeah he had Elway but Elway was far from his prime when TD was there. Bubby Brister might have won us a Super Bowl with those teams.

Bub wasn't winning you a ****ing Super Bowl

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

The bolded is not true. In those 4 years, TD got the ball on over 35% of Denver's plays (over 40% in 1998). In JC's 4 years, he got the ball on just under 28% of the plays. Not being the main driving force behind the offense the way TD was allows JC extra breathing room, boosting his YPC.

Look at it this way: JC has had 8 multi-TD games in his career, TD had 19. They have played in nearly the same number of games (82 vs 86).

JC's numbers are skewed a bit. We've been counting 2009 as a full season but in reality he only started for the final 9 games. I will give you the 2010 season, however. He technically wasn't even our "starting" RB that season and got the bulk of his carries between the 20s, which could boost YPC.

Still, if you take a look at the last two seasons, he's touched the ball on 32% of our offense's plays, which puts him right up there with TD.

As for the touchdown statistics, I guess it's just a matter of how much you think surrounding talent contributes. There's no question that Jamaal has played on some of the most anemic offenses in recent memory. In 2009 we only scored 26 offensive TDs (once again, he only started 9 games that season) and in 2012 we only scored 17 offensive TDs (God, that's horrible). For comparison, we weren't even top 5 in scoring this season and managed 41 offensive TDs. I don't think it's a coincidence that his TD production skyrocketed in a capable offense with a coach that fully utilizes his talents.

... But numbers aside, I don't see how you can watch a Chiefs game and think Jamaal isn't the main, driving force behind our offense.

[New World Order]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

More pointing out the fact that TD was likely the best post-season RB in NFL history. For as good as he was all the time, he knew how to turn it on when it mattered the most.

We all know that JC has an incredible career YPC, but TD's post-season YPC was higher.

TD is the most overrated player of all time. Shanahan could stick any player at rb and could pick up 1200 yards. How many running backs did he let go/trade?

[Quesadilla Joe]

@MrKnighton2u

For those "analyst" and "experts" who say Demarcus ware lost a step. 😂😂😂😂 you better come watch practice. #snodaaaaaat

@Julius_Thomas · 4h

@MrKnighton2u are "EXPERTS" really saying D Ware lost a step? No way! Fans of the NFL can take it from me. He is fast as hell off the line

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by The Herpe

Quote:
@MrKnighton2u

For those "analyst" and "experts" who say Demarcus ware lost a step. �������� you better come watch practice. #snodaaaaaat

Quote:
@Julius_Thomas · 4h

@MrKnighton2u are "EXPERTS" really saying D Ware lost a step? No way! Fans of the NFL can take it from me. He is fast as hell off the line

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Originally Posted by The Herpe

No 1 curr

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Someone copy and paste the hef roast in here if you could be kind. Can't on my phone.