Chiefs If you support Reid and Smith after today, what will it take to change your mind? - Page 8

ChiefsFanatic · 12-19-2016, 01:44 AM

I know this is probably going to be TL;DR for most, if not all, but I can't seem to fight my Ambîen, so here it goes.

(ambîen crib notes: Reid is Marty 2.0 - lots of regular season wins and no playoff success. Alex Smith is the Marty Schottenheimer of regular season Game Manager QBs. And Clark Hunt is the Marty Schottenheimer of owners, but WITHOUT Marty's desire to win a Championship)

Reid made more Reid decisions today.

1. Not calling a timeout before the 4th and Goal play. I wasn't against going for it. I liked the aggressive attitude. But considering the 3rd down play, I believe the 4th down call was so Reid of Reid. A timeout there, at minimum, gives Reid an opportunity to discuss what Alex "Gigabytes" Smith has been seeing from the defense. It presents an opportunity to change the call based on input from Smith, and probably the offensive coordinators in title only. There was really no strategic reason why a timeout there couldn't have been called.

My issue with the play that was called is that we were just stuffed on a nearly identical play, and that formation allowed all 11 defenders to pack the box. Without the back going over the pile ala Marcus Allen or Priest Holmes, I feel the play had a low percentage of success. Spreading the defense out obviously takes several defenders away from the ball. The halftime reporter said Reid regretted not running at least one pass play on either 3rd or 4th down. A timeout may have given him a chance to select a higher percentage play.

2. Reid mismanages the clock, and he mismanages timeouts. On the winning FG he managed to mismanage both at the same time. I am not sold that a timeout to ice Succop was even necessary given the weather conditions. But I am 100% sold on the strategy of never letting a kicker get a free practice kick in a game deciding play. So, maybe there was a valid reason for the timeout, although stats have proven that icing the kicker really doesn't have any affect on a kickers accuracy. If the timeout was Reid's strategy, then he mismanaged the timing of the timeout.

3. Alex Smith couldn't take advantage of playing one of the worst pass defenses in football, playing WITHOUT some of their starters. Why. How. Reid once again called many plays that went perpendicular to the LOS. The success rates for these plays have been plummeting since Hill scored on a screen, at the beginning of the season. Against Oakland Reid managed to keep those plays to a bare minimum, and although the offense didn't score a ton of points, the lack of side to side plays enabled the offense to keep drives going. Smith once again stared down his receiver in the red zone, which resulted in another interception in the end zone. This is the Alex Smith whose brain has been compared to a high capacity hard drive by Andy Reid. Apparently, Smith has been ignoring his low capacity warning. Why else would a $17 million dollar, super intelligent QB not be able to learn that that when he stares directly at his target in the end zone, where there is a limited area for his target to move, that the defensive players can easily identify his target, and adjust in order to catch it? Is he even aware that the defenders can see his eyes? Is he even aware that when he never moves his head to the center, or the right, that the defenders realize that only receivers on the left side of the field are possible targets? I am sorry, but this is the type of mistake that rookie quarterbacks make? Yiu know, because they are rookies. Are Smith, and Reid, and Dorsey, aware that this is the kind of ineptitude that plagues 2nd and 3rd string QBs? FFS, that's why they are 2nd and 3rd string QBs.

4. This is not the first time that the Chiefs have lost games because of these exact types of mistakes from Reid and Smith. Just this year we lost to Tampa Bay because Smith stared down his receiver in the end zone. Last year (or maybe the year before. I can't remember because Ambien) we had 8 plays with goal to go at Denver and came away with zero points. Going back to the Colts playoff meltdown, Reid's complete lack of situational awareness, and lack of understanding when it comes to clock management, provided this franchise their most embarrassing playoff ever. That is possibly the most embarrassing loss for the Chiefs ever. And that includes the Greg Robinson years when opposing players, and opposing coaches literally laughed at our defense, and how easy it was to score on them.

In the two home losses this year, Jameis Winston and Marcus Marriota went nearly untouched by our supposed mighty pass rush. Alex Smith threw interceptions in the end zone in both of those losses.

Earlier this year, we were winning games when our defense created a positive turnover ratio. And now we are losing games despite winning the turnover game.

We needed miracles to win against the Chargers in week 1, the Panthers in week 10, the Broncos in week 12, and the Falcons in week 13.

I have been a Chiefs fan since I was 6 years old. I will be a Chiefs fan until I die. But I have seen enough of Reid, and enough of Smith. When Marty resurrected my beloved Chiefs, winning regular season games was enough for me. It was so much better than all the losing. It took the sting away from drafting Blackledge in 1983, passing over Dan Marino. And Jim Kelly I guess.

But every team in the original AFC West has been to at least one Super Bowl in my lifetime. I was born in 1971. The Broncos have 3 rings, and have been in like 4 others. Again ambien. The Raiders have 2 rings. The freaking Seahawks have a ring and been in 2 others. And the Chargers have been to a Super Bowl.

But wait, there's more. Tampa Bay, who set records for losing, and have won a Super Bowl. The New Orleans Ain'ts have won a Super Bowl. The Colts who were once pathetic like the late 70s and 80s Chiefs have a ring and been there twice. The Cleveland Browns have 2 Super Bowl rings. Yes, they were the Ravens at the time, but except for the name, it was the Browns franchise. The Rams have won a Super Bowl.

But wait, there is still more. The Carolina Panthers, a team that didn't begin playing games until 1995 have appeared in 2 (TWO) Super Bowls. And the Jacksonville Jaguars, another team that didn't start playing games until 1995 have played in 2 AFC Championship Games. That's twice as many as the Chiefs.

Expansion franchises and perrienial losers have been to, and in several cases, won Super Bowls. If they can do it, why can't our Kansas City Chiefs?

That is what I want for my team. I think that is what every Chiefs fan wants. Andy Reid and Alex Smith are not the Coach/QB tandem that is going to make that happen. And Clark Hunt probably isn't the owner that's going to make that happen. After some 2-14 and 4-12 years, Dorsey, Reid, and Smith have returned the Chiefs to the Marty Schottenheimer glory days of lots of regular season wins, and little to no playoff success.

For me, at this point, it is clear that Reid is not a Super Bowl winning head coach. Yes, he did coach in, and lost, one Super Bowl, but he took the Eagles to 4 straight NFC Championship games (right?) before actually winning on the fourth try. That was the 2004—2005 season and he hasn't sniffed a title game since.

OK. At this point I can't even remember what I actually wanted to accomplish with this thread. I will keep cheering for my Chiefs, but I will keep cussing every time Reid or Smith do something moronic and stupid. Regular season wins mean much less to me now. The end result of going 4-12, and going 11-5 with just one or no playoff wins, is the same. No Super Bowl appearance. And 4-12 is closer to a franchise quarterback.

That's a joke. Sorry. We all know the Chiefs will never have a franchise QB. Aren't we the only team in NFL history to never win a playoff game with a quarterback we drafted? That's not a long string of bad luck. That's an organizational culture of ineptitude.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk

TripleThreat · 12-19-2016, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Less than 10 TDs in a season? You mean his rookie year and the last year that he played with the Vikings? **** out of here with this bullshit.

Alex Smith couldn't sniff Donovan McNabb's jock.

Oh yeah, you are right, not sure what i was looking at where i had seen 8-9 TD seasons.. however, I think my point still stands where MCnabb never cracked over 25 TD's MORE THAN once in his entire career, and never hit 4k yards, and he only stopped playing 5 years ago..... Still means alot...

dls6501 · 12-19-2016, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripleThreat

Oh yeah, you are right, not sure what i was looking at where i had seen 8-9 TD seasons.. however, I think my point still stands where MCnabb never cracked over 25 TD's MORE THAN once in his entire career, and never hit 4k yards, and he only stopped playing 5 years ago..... Still means alot...

Please refer to my last post to you.

**The Franchise** · 12-19-2016, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripleThreat

Oh yeah, you are right, not sure what i was looking at where i had seen 8-9 TD seasons.. however, I think my point still stands where MCnabb never cracked over 25 TD's MORE THAN once in his entire career, and never hit 4k yards, and he only stopped playing 5 years ago..... Still means alot...

Seasons with more than 20 TDs:

McNabb - 5
Smith - 1

Season with more than 3000 yards:

McNabb - 8
Smith - 4

The only knock you can come up with on McNabb, is that he was injured a lot.

kccrow · 12-19-2016, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripleThreat

I am not saying that. However, when Mcnabb is tossing less than 10td's in seasons, and when u compare him to the "more elite" qbs of that time, he compares very much to alex smith. whether u want to admit it or not.

This made me LOL.

TripleThreat · 12-19-2016, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Seasons with more than 20 TDs:

McNabb - 5
Smith - 1

Season with more than 3000 yards:

McNabb - 8
Smith - 4

The only knock you can come up with on McNabb, is that he was injured a lot.

Well now we are lowering stats.... To fit the Narrative that Mcnabb is a better QB than Smith.. (which in some essence I do agree with).. However, the main knock that a group of posters throws around here is, when will alex smith ever hit 4k yards, Well mcnabb didnt. When will Alex hit 25 TD's+ ... Im using arguments that we use against smith here, and using those arguments against MCnabb, because THAT is what i deem fair.. Not to start nit picking oh well he threw for 3K this many times etc.. Peyton was throwing for 4k since 1999, and never looked back... So to assume this narrative like Mcnabb was some elite QB during his playing days that wouldve reached 4k yards in these days of the NFL is absurd.

TigeRRUppeRRcut · 12-19-2016, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dls6501

Amazes me that people think differently. McNabb's career was ruined by injuries. Every time he played a full season, he was widely regarded as a top 5 QB. Alex has never come close to being held in the same light as McNabb.

You're just further adding to our point of him being overrated. If you can't be on the field to play then what good are you? He was throwing a lot more picks than he should have. Don't care how many TD's you put up it doesn't correlate with wins.

4000 yard seasons from a QB also do not correlate with success. Tom Brady averaged 225 yards/game when he won 3 rings in 5 years, that's a 3600 yard season IF you can play all 16 games.

Facts, not fiction.

TripleThreat · 12-19-2016, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

This made me LOL.

Me too after I realized how FAIL i was on it lol

**The Franchise** · 12-19-2016, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripleThreat

Well now we are lowering stats.... To fit the Narrative that Mcnabb is a better QB than Smith.. (which in some essence I do agree with).. However, the main knock that a group of posters throws around here is, when will alex smith ever hit 4k yards, Well mcnabb didnt. When will Alex hit 25 TD's+ ... Im using arguments that we use against smith here, and using those arguments against MCnabb, because THAT is what i deem fair.. Not to start nit picking oh well he threw for 3K this many times etc.. Peyton was throwing for 4k since 1999, and never looked back... So to assume this narrative like Mcnabb was some elite QB during his playing days that wouldve reached 4k yards in these days of the NFL is absurd.

Want to go with 25 then? We can go 25 and over for TDs.

McNabb - 2
Smith - 0

We were comparing McNabb and Smith. Not Peyton Manning. We can compare Manning and Smith if you'd like.

**The Franchise** · 12-19-2016, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigerUppercut

You're just further adding to our point of him being overrated. If you can't be on the field to play then what good are you? He was throwing a lot more picks than he should have. Don't care how many TD's you put up it doesn't correlate with wins.

4000 yard seasons from a QB also do not correlate with success. Tom Brady averaged 225 yards/game when he won 3 rings in 5 years, that's a 3600 yard season IF you can play all 16 games.

Facts, not fiction.

Smith missed more games.

kccrow · 12-19-2016, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripleThreat

Me too after I realized how FAIL i was on it lol

Been there.

Fish · 12-19-2016, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigerUppercut

You're just further adding to our point of him being overrated. If you can't be on the field to play then what good are you? He was throwing a lot more picks than he should have. Don't care how many TD's you put up it doesn't correlate with wins.

You clown.........

TigeRRUppeRRcut · 12-19-2016, 03:17 PM

SB Champ's Passing numbers

2015 Peyton 225 ypg
2014 Brady 257 ypg
2013 Wilson 210 ypg
2012 Flacco 225 ypg

Something tells me we will be fine with Smith's 230 ypg if we can clean up the Redzone mistakes....

Mr. Laz · 12-19-2016, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigerUppercut

SB Champ's Passing numbers

2015 Peyton 225 ypg
2014 Brady 257 ypg
2013 Wilson 210 ypg
2012 Flacco 225 ypg

Something tells me we will be fine with Smith's 230 ypg if we can clean up the Redzone mistakes and Reid's inconsistent playcalling

FYP

kccrow · 12-19-2016, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigerUppercut

You're just further adding to our point of him being overrated. If you can't be on the field to play then what good are you? He was throwing a lot more picks than he should have. Don't care how many TD's you put up it doesn't correlate with wins.

4000 yard seasons from a QB also do not correlate with success. Tom Brady averaged 225 yards/game when he won 3 rings in 5 years, that's a 3600 yard season IF you can play all 16 games.

Facts, not fiction.

Oh, you mean 15 years ago when 4000 yard seasons weren't as easy to come by? Facts.

TigeRRUppeRRcut · 12-19-2016, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

You clown.........

I'll give you six seasons of Aaron Rodgers TD totals and you tell me which one belongs to his Superbowl year. Ready? GO!

28, 30, 31, 38, 39, 45

12-19-2016, 01:44 AM
ChiefsFanatic DeadPunisher Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Blue Springs, MO. 64014 Casino cash: $3139205	If you support Reid and Smith after today, what will it take to change your mind? I know this is probably going to be TL;DR for most, if not all, but I can't seem to fight my Ambîen, so here it goes. (ambîen crib notes: Reid is Marty 2.0 - lots of regular season wins and no playoff success. Alex Smith is the Marty Schottenheimer of regular season Game Manager QBs. And Clark Hunt is the Marty Schottenheimer of owners, but WITHOUT Marty's desire to win a Championship) Reid made more Reid decisions today. 1. Not calling a timeout before the 4th and Goal play. I wasn't against going for it. I liked the aggressive attitude. But considering the 3rd down play, I believe the 4th down call was so Reid of Reid. A timeout there, at minimum, gives Reid an opportunity to discuss what Alex "Gigabytes" Smith has been seeing from the defense. It presents an opportunity to change the call based on input from Smith, and probably the offensive coordinators in title only. There was really no strategic reason why a timeout there couldn't have been called. My issue with the play that was called is that we were just stuffed on a nearly identical play, and that formation allowed all 11 defenders to pack the box. Without the back going over the pile ala Marcus Allen or Priest Holmes, I feel the play had a low percentage of success. Spreading the defense out obviously takes several defenders away from the ball. The halftime reporter said Reid regretted not running at least one pass play on either 3rd or 4th down. A timeout may have given him a chance to select a higher percentage play. 2. Reid mismanages the clock, and he mismanages timeouts. On the winning FG he managed to mismanage both at the same time. I am not sold that a timeout to ice Succop was even necessary given the weather conditions. But I am 100% sold on the strategy of never letting a kicker get a free practice kick in a game deciding play. So, maybe there was a valid reason for the timeout, although stats have proven that icing the kicker really doesn't have any affect on a kickers accuracy. If the timeout was Reid's strategy, then he mismanaged the timing of the timeout. 3. Alex Smith couldn't take advantage of playing one of the worst pass defenses in football, playing WITHOUT some of their starters. Why. How. Reid once again called many plays that went perpendicular to the LOS. The success rates for these plays have been plummeting since Hill scored on a screen, at the beginning of the season. Against Oakland Reid managed to keep those plays to a bare minimum, and although the offense didn't score a ton of points, the lack of side to side plays enabled the offense to keep drives going. Smith once again stared down his receiver in the red zone, which resulted in another interception in the end zone. This is the Alex Smith whose brain has been compared to a high capacity hard drive by Andy Reid. Apparently, Smith has been ignoring his low capacity warning. Why else would a $17 million dollar, super intelligent QB not be able to learn that that when he stares directly at his target in the end zone, where there is a limited area for his target to move, that the defensive players can easily identify his target, and adjust in order to catch it? Is he even aware that the defenders can see his eyes? Is he even aware that when he never moves his head to the center, or the right, that the defenders realize that only receivers on the left side of the field are possible targets? I am sorry, but this is the type of mistake that rookie quarterbacks make? Yiu know, because they are rookies. Are Smith, and Reid, and Dorsey, aware that this is the kind of ineptitude that plagues 2nd and 3rd string QBs? FFS, that's why they are 2nd and 3rd string QBs. 4. This is not the first time that the Chiefs have lost games because of these exact types of mistakes from Reid and Smith. Just this year we lost to Tampa Bay because Smith stared down his receiver in the end zone. Last year (or maybe the year before. I can't remember because Ambien) we had 8 plays with goal to go at Denver and came away with zero points. Going back to the Colts playoff meltdown, Reid's complete lack of situational awareness, and lack of understanding when it comes to clock management, provided this franchise their most embarrassing playoff ever. That is possibly the most embarrassing loss for the Chiefs ever. And that includes the Greg Robinson years when opposing players, and opposing coaches literally laughed at our defense, and how easy it was to score on them. In the two home losses this year, Jameis Winston and Marcus Marriota went nearly untouched by our supposed mighty pass rush. Alex Smith threw interceptions in the end zone in both of those losses. Earlier this year, we were winning games when our defense created a positive turnover ratio. And now we are losing games despite winning the turnover game. We needed miracles to win against the Chargers in week 1, the Panthers in week 10, the Broncos in week 12, and the Falcons in week 13. I have been a Chiefs fan since I was 6 years old. I will be a Chiefs fan until I die. But I have seen enough of Reid, and enough of Smith. When Marty resurrected my beloved Chiefs, winning regular season games was enough for me. It was so much better than all the losing. It took the sting away from drafting Blackledge in 1983, passing over Dan Marino. And Jim Kelly I guess. But every team in the original AFC West has been to at least one Super Bowl in my lifetime. I was born in 1971. The Broncos have 3 rings, and have been in like 4 others. Again ambien. The Raiders have 2 rings. The freaking Seahawks have a ring and been in 2 others. And the Chargers have been to a Super Bowl. But wait, there's more. Tampa Bay, who set records for losing, and have won a Super Bowl. The New Orleans Ain'ts have won a Super Bowl. The Colts who were once pathetic like the late 70s and 80s Chiefs have a ring and been there twice. The Cleveland Browns have 2 Super Bowl rings. Yes, they were the Ravens at the time, but except for the name, it was the Browns franchise. The Rams have won a Super Bowl. But wait, there is still more. The Carolina Panthers, a team that didn't begin playing games until 1995 have appeared in 2 (TWO) Super Bowls. And the Jacksonville Jaguars, another team that didn't start playing games until 1995 have played in 2 AFC Championship Games. That's twice as many as the Chiefs. Expansion franchises and perrienial losers have been to, and in several cases, won Super Bowls. If they can do it, why can't our Kansas City Chiefs? That is what I want for my team. I think that is what every Chiefs fan wants. Andy Reid and Alex Smith are not the Coach/QB tandem that is going to make that happen. And Clark Hunt probably isn't the owner that's going to make that happen. After some 2-14 and 4-12 years, Dorsey, Reid, and Smith have returned the Chiefs to the Marty Schottenheimer glory days of lots of regular season wins, and little to no playoff success. For me, at this point, it is clear that Reid is not a Super Bowl winning head coach. Yes, he did coach in, and lost, one Super Bowl, but he took the Eagles to 4 straight NFC Championship games (right?) before actually winning on the fourth try. That was the 2004—2005 season and he hasn't sniffed a title game since. OK. At this point I can't even remember what I actually wanted to accomplish with this thread. I will keep cheering for my Chiefs, but I will keep cussing every time Reid or Smith do something moronic and stupid. Regular season wins mean much less to me now. The end result of going 4-12, and going 11-5 with just one or no playoff wins, is the same. No Super Bowl appearance. And 4-12 is closer to a franchise quarterback. That's a joke. Sorry. We all know the Chiefs will never have a franchise QB. Aren't we the only team in NFL history to never win a playoff game with a quarterback we drafted? That's not a long string of bad luck. That's an organizational culture of ineptitude. Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
Posts: 7,453

12-19-2016, 03:17 PM	#117
TigeRRUppeRRcut Banned Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: 19th Hole Casino cash: $10004725	SB Champ's Passing numbers 2015 Peyton 225 ypg 2014 Brady 257 ypg 2013 Wilson 210 ypg 2012 Flacco 225 ypg Something tells me we will be fine with Smith's 230 ypg if we can clean up the Redzone mistakes....
Posts: 11,680