Chiefs Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey - Page 7

Quesadilla Joe · 03:11 PM

A lot of new information/quotes in this article...

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html

Spoiler!

The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork.

They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks.

But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity.

As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.”

A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned.

Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired.

While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs.

While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser.

“He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey.

That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team.

“He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.”

“It’s more about his management skills,” another source added.

For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization.

“Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.”

Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others.

“It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said.

Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths.

“Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.”

“He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.”

Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star.

“He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said.

“One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.”

Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation.

“A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.”

Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless.

“He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.”

It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM.

“I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.”

Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two.

“We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM.

“To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.”

Chiefshrink · 06-25-2017, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

Pioli lasted as GM for four years and it took air planes flying around Arrowhead, a 2-12 record, and a murder-suicide in the stadium parking lot. What did Dorsey do to deserve such a short tenure? The most reasonable explanation is another bad move by bad ownership.

He must have pissed off Clark royally somehow !!

BlackOp · 06-25-2017, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

Pioli lasted as GM for four years and it took air planes flying around Arrowhead, a 2-12 record, and a murder-suicide in the stadium parking lot. What did Dorsey do to deserve such a short tenure? The most reasonable explanation is another bad move by bad ownership.

Maybe Dorsey pointed out what a chump Hunt is...I'm backing Dorsey on this. He's an old school football guy. Chunt is a trust fund baby that played soccer...he's a silverspooner. He wouldn't even be around a football team...if it wasn't given to him.

Chiefshrink · 06-25-2017, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackOp

Maybe Dorsey pointed out what a chump Hunt is...I'm backing Dorsey on this. He's an old school football guy. Chunt is a trust fund baby that played soccer...he's a silverspooner.

You know I thought about this as well, and you may very well be right to some degree and doesn't even have to be said either. It's just demeanor and body language that maybe Dorsey was giving off to Clark, "like son you have no idea about football talent let alone how the game is played" just let me do my job and you keep doing the "rich king giving back to the pauper community thing", okay? But I think it was combined with Dorsey really screwing up with Clark big time though.

BlackOp · 06-25-2017, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

You know I thought about this as well, and you may very well be right to some degree and doesn't even have to be said either. It's just demeanor and body language that maybe Dorsey was giving off to Clark, "like son you have no idea about football talent let alone how the game is played" just let me do my job and you keep doing the "rich king giving back to the pauper community thing", okay? But I think it was combined with Dorsey really screwing up with Clark big time though.

I could see that "vibe" happening...Dorsey is a macho, competitive dude. He might give off the impression that CHunt should stick to things he actually knows...and leave football matters to those who have been doing it their whole lives.

There is nothing more annoying than working for someone that is incompetent...yet was gifted their position. I dont think anyone would argue that Chunt wasnt "gifted" his situation.

Dorsey had a 22-4 bat to swing...

splatbass · 06-25-2017, 11:03 PM

We have no idea what was said in private between Hunt and Dorsey. For all we know Hunt told Dorsey the areas where he needed to improve and Dorsey said "**** you, I'm going to keep doing it my way". I think without more information it is too early to lay the blame on one side or the other. I know that won't stop the people that already hate Clark Hunt and always automatically take the most negative possible view of him from blaming him.

Eureka · 06-25-2017, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Hunts aren't about winning.

Yeah, they aren't Al Davis like. Dorsey had this team going in the right direction even with a questionable QB.

BlackOp · 06-25-2017, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splatbass

We have no idea what was said in private between Hunt and Dorsey. For all we know Hunt told Dorsey the areas where he needed to improve and Dorsey said "**** you, I'm going to keep doing it my way". I think without more information it is too early to lay the blame on one side or the other. I know that won't stop the people that already hate Clark Hunt and always automatically take the most negative possible view of him from blaming him.

I dont hate Chunt but I dont like spoiled, entitled rich kids either ...this was an amateur move. It's pretty much unprecedented... He needs to stay out of the way..KC had a good thing going.

splatbass · 06-25-2017, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackOp

I dont hate Chunt but I dont like spoiled, entitled rich kids either ...this was an amateur move. It's pretty much unprecedented... He needs to stay out of the way..KC had a good thing going.

How can you say this is an amateur move when you don't even know what happened? Do you realize there are things that are fireable offenses in any job?

BlackOp · 06-25-2017, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splatbass

How can you say this is an amateur move when you don't even know what happened? Do you realize there are things that are fireable offenses in any job?

The timing...there is a reason this never happens.

Unless he was banging Chunt's trophy wife...another object his father inadvertently bought for him.

splatbass · 06-25-2017, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackOp

The timing...there is a reason this never happens.

Unless he was banging Chunt's trophy wife...another object his father inadvertently bought for him.

You pathological hatred and jealousy of the rich is coloring your view.

BlackOp · 06-25-2017, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splatbass

You pathological hatred and jealousy of the rich is coloring your view.

Oh really..you think that woman sees Chunt working at Walmart and marries him?

Dont be naive...there is the world as it is and the world people wish it was.

I wish CHunt didn't own the Chiefs...but that isn't the case. This scenario was ****ed up by everyone's observation...sounds like Hunt jr.'s unwarranted ego got the best of him

**srvy** · 06-26-2017, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackOp

Oh really..you think that woman sees Chunt working at Walmart and marries him?

Dont be naive...there is the world as it is and the world people wish it was.

I wish CHunt didn't own the Chiefs...but that isn't the case. This scenario was ****ed up by everyone's observation...sounds like Hunt jr.'s unwarranted ego got the best of him

Chunt doesn't own the Chiefs its in a family trust in which the other members of the family have made him the spokesman. CHunt wasn't the only factor in this decision I dont think he surely consulted his family members a multitude of lawyers. What ever it was it had to be pretty bad I would think. Also Clark wasn't just handed the reigns of the organization he worked behind the shadows was in and around football people most of his life. He ran the day to day affairs 2 years before lamar died because his dad was to sick. Because he grew up in a wealthy family doesn't make him a boob and the helmet head of hair doesn't play into this at all. I would guess its something like Dorsey didnt get permission to talk to GB and they didnt ask. He probably got caught was warned and turned around and did it again. Hunts have connections everywhere Dorsey should have known this.

BlackOp · 06-26-2017, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srvy

Chunt doesn't own the Chiefs its in a family trust in which the other members of the family have made him the spokesman. CHunt wasn't the only factor in this decision I dont think he surely consulted his family members a multitude of lawyers. What ever it was it had to be pretty bad I would think. Also Clark wasn't just handed the reigns of the organization he worked behind the shadows was in and around football people most of his life. He ran the day to day affairs 2 years before lamar died because his dad was to sick. Because he grew up in a wealthy family doesn't make him a boob and the helmet head of hair doesn't play into this at all. I would guess its something like Dorsey didnt get permission to talk to GB and they didnt ask. He probably got caught was warned and turned around and did it again. Hunts have connections everywhere Dorsey should have known this.

Whatever happened..it hasn't happened before. Teams just dont operate this way...it's not a good look for Chunt.

I dont think he's "boob"....just dont think he's genuinely earned his lot in life. Dorsey has...so I'm siding with him. Reid had been his friend for 20+ years...

If he wants to run the team like a soulless bank..so be it. I'm on the way out as far as my interest in the NFL is concerned...it's like everything these days..corrupted.

It doesn't really matter...

splatbass · 06-26-2017, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackOp

Whatever happened..it hasn't happened before. Teams just dont operate this way...it's not a good look for Chunt.

I dont think he's "boob"....just dont think he's genuinely earned his lot in life. Dorsey has...so I'm siding with him. Reid had been his friend for 20+ years...

Clark Hunt is the CEO of the Chiefs. He has far more football and business experience than you will ever have. We have no idea what happened to cause this, but one thing I'm absolutely sure of is Clark Hunt knows more than you about just about everything, except maybe crazy conspiracy theories.

Did you hear the one about how Clark's grandfather H. L Hunt was involved in the JFK assassination? Maybe you don't want to **** with Clark Hunt.

BlackOp · 06-26-2017, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splatbass

Clark Hunt is the CEO of the Chiefs. He has far more football and business experience than you will ever have. We have no idea what happened to cause this, but one thing I'm absolutely sure of is Clark Hunt knows more than you about just about everything, except maybe crazy conspiracy theories.

Did you hear the one about how Clark's grandfather H. L Hunt was involved in the JFK assassination? Maybe you don't want to **** with Clark Hunt.

Yep..and his vast NFL experience led to hiring Crenell as HC and allowed Pioli to become a little Hitler. His front office acumen earned him the #1 pick in the draft...so he has that pelt on his mantle. He orchestrated the worst team in the NFL..congrats. How dare I question his greatness...

Shouldn't you be painting a color by numbers book? You have a propensity for order and structure...blindly following the rules of smarter men. Your "yes man" energy dies at my ears...

06-25-2017, 02:52 PM
Quesadilla Joe Abolish The Salary Cap! Join Date: Mar 2008 Casino cash: $4078675	Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey A lot of new information/quotes in this article... http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html Spoiler! The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork. They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks. But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity. As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.” A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned. Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired. While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs. While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser. “He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey. That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team. “He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.” “It’s more about his management skills,” another source added. For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization. “Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.” Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others. “It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said. Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths. “Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.” “He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.” Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star. “He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said. “One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.” Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation. “A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.” Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless. “He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.” It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM. “I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.” Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two. “We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM. “To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.” Last edited by Quesadilla Joe; 06-25-2017 at 03:11 PM..
Posts: 19,691

06-25-2017, 11:03 PM	#95
splatbass MVP Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Casino cash: $6680560	We have no idea what was said in private between Hunt and Dorsey. For all we know Hunt told Dorsey the areas where he needed to improve and Dorsey said "**** you, I'm going to keep doing it my way". I think without more information it is too early to lay the blame on one side or the other. I know that won't stop the people that already hate Clark Hunt and always automatically take the most negative possible view of him from blaming him.
Posts: 10,063