Chiefs Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey - Page 12

Quesadilla Joe · 03:11 PM

A lot of new information/quotes in this article...

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html

Spoiler!

The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork.

They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks.

But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity.

As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.”

A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned.

Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired.

While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs.

While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser.

“He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey.

That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team.

“He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.”

“It’s more about his management skills,” another source added.

For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization.

“Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.”

Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others.

“It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said.

Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths.

“Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.”

“He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.”

Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star.

“He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said.

“One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.”

Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation.

“A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.”

Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless.

“He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.”

It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM.

“I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.”

Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two.

“We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM.

“To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.”

staylor26 · 06-26-2017, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Bullshit.

And Allbright is a ****ing moron, which of course, explains why you'd agree with him.

Either you're a worse troll than GoChiefs or you're just dumb as ****.

He doesn't like Reid. That's what this is about.

JakeF · 06-26-2017, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

When was Dorsey ever a coordinator?

I don't think he meant it that way. He meant that Dorsey might be a tweener, an elite player personnel guy but not quite good enough to be a GM.

JakeF · 06-26-2017, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

I don't get this.

Why would Andy want more power when Dorsey clearly built a Reid team?

So his buddies like Maclin and DAT never get cut.

DaWolf · 06-26-2017, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Good ****ing grief

Trip MacCracken: Director Football Operations

MacCracken enters his third year as the Chiefs Director of Football Administration. He arrived in Kansas City after spending 11 seasons with Cleveland (1999-09), where his duties included contract negotiations, as well as other responsibilities in football operations. During his tenure with the Browns, he served as Legal Counsel (2009), Director of Football Administration (2006-08), Salary Cap Coordinator (2001-05) and Salary Cap Administrator (1999-00).

http://www.chiefs.com/team/staff/tri...1-2752bbac88dc

Yeah, but he reported to Dorsey. I'm saying Dorsey needs to focus on the roster building, MacCracken needs to focus on the salary cap, and they both report to a President of Football Ops who is on site every day and holds them accountable. If MacCracken was bad at his job, and Dorsey basically let him be bad at his job for the last few years, as the Paylor article alludes to, then that doesn't do any good.

If we take all of this at face value, then Clark, who Dorsey reported to, is a horrible CEO because he has no clue what is going on in his own organization until it is too late. Pioli being another example...

O.city · 06-26-2017, 01:08 PM

Seems like Dorsey is a great scout but was over his head with the rest of the gm stuff maybe?

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-26-2017, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaWolf

Yeah, but he reported to Dorsey. I'm saying Dorsey needs to focus on the roster building, MacCracken needs to focus on the salary cap, and they both report to a President of Football Ops who is on site every day and holds them accountable. If MacCracken was bad at his job, and Dorsey basically let him be bad at his job for the last few years, as the Paylor article alludes to, then that doesn't do any good.

If we take all of this at face value, then Clark, who Dorsey reported to, is a horrible CEO because he has no clue what is going on in his own organization until it is too late. Pioli being another example...

I don't even know where to begin, as there is so much wrong with this post.

Holy ****, people.

DaWolf · 06-26-2017, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

Yea to you because you're anti-Reid so it fits your agenda. How convenient.

I can't speak to him, but I don't necessarily see how this is anti-Reid. I'd probably do the same thing if I were in Reid's shoes. There has to be some balance between drafting, paying your guys, and having room to maneuver in free agency. The best organizations have that. I think Reid needs to either come out of this with clear final say on personnel, or Clark needs to hire a football czar that will be in KC every day of the week and hold everyone accountable and set the organizational tone, sort of like what Denver has in Joe Ellis. Clark has yet to show that he is up to it in terms of running an organization on a daily basis. He's not shy about opening up the wallet and going out and trying to get the best guy, which is a great thing for us as fans. But he's got to figure out an organizational philosophy that is going to work and promote that stability he keeps telling us he wants...

**wazu** · 06-26-2017, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Seems like Dorsey is a great scout but was over his head with the rest of the gm stuff maybe?

If by "in over his head" you mean that the team he has been building for the last 4 years finished with a 12-4 record in 2016, then yes.

**Rausch** · 06-26-2017, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Seems like Dorsey is a great scout but was over his head with the rest of the gm stuff maybe?

I think that's it.

The contracts were what he lacked in.

Honestly, that shit should be divided up (and I'm sure it was.)

DJJasonp · 06-26-2017, 01:51 PM

All moves regarding personnel (whether front-office, coaching, or players) should be made with "does it make us better" being asked.

Time will tell......

Hammock Parties · 06-26-2017, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Bullshit.

And Allbright is a ****ing moron, which of course, explains why you'd agree with him.

Either you're a worse troll than GoChiefs or you're just dumb as ****.

Marcellus · 06-26-2017, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Nothing else makes sense as to actually firing the guy. The cap stuff sucks but is that enough to fire someone who was as good at talent evaluation?

If your hygienist who work for you were only good at half their job how well would that go over?

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-26-2017, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

.

You're boring, Geno

O.city · 06-26-2017, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

If your hygienist who work for you were only good at half their job how well would that go over?

Depends which half it is. Bringing in talent is the lifeblood of the 53.

Lex Luthor · 06-26-2017, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpaint69

I missed all the Super Bowls the Hunts delivered.

I saw two in four years. Of course, that was a LONNNNNNNG time ago.

06-25-2017, 02:52 PM
Quesadilla Joe Abolish The Salary Cap! Join Date: Mar 2008 Casino cash: $4078675	Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey A lot of new information/quotes in this article... http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html Spoiler! The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork. They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks. But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity. As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.” A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned. Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired. While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs. While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser. “He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey. That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team. “He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.” “It’s more about his management skills,” another source added. For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization. “Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.” Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others. “It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said. Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths. “Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.” “He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.” Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star. “He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said. “One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.” Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation. “A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.” Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless. “He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.” It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM. “I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.” Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two. “We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM. “To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.” Last edited by Quesadilla Joe; 06-25-2017 at 03:11 PM..
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06-26-2017, 01:08 PM	#170
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2724064	Seems like Dorsey is a great scout but was over his head with the rest of the gm stuff maybe?
Posts: 81,275

06-26-2017, 01:51 PM	#175
DJJasonp My work speaks for itself!!! Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: So Cal Casino cash: $1955200	All moves regarding personnel (whether front-office, coaching, or players) should be made with "does it make us better" being asked. Time will tell...... __________________ Its easier to fool a man, than to convince a man he's been fooled.
Posts: 12,001