Chiefs Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey - Page 8

Quesadilla Joe · 03:11 PM

A lot of new information/quotes in this article...

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html

Spoiler!

The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork.

They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks.

But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity.

As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.”

A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned.

Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired.

While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs.

While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser.

“He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey.

That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team.

“He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.”

“It’s more about his management skills,” another source added.

For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization.

“Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.”

Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others.

“It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said.

Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths.

“Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.”

“He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.”

Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star.

“He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said.

“One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.”

Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation.

“A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.”

Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless.

“He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.”

It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM.

“I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.”

Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two.

“We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM.

“To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.”

splatbass · 06-26-2017, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackOp

Yep..and his vast NFL experience led to hiring Crenell as HC and allowed Pioli to become a little Hitler.

He fired both.

**Baby Lee** · 06-26-2017, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splatbass

I know that won't stop the people that already hate Clark Hunt and always automatically take the most negative possible view of him from blaming him.

I don't hate Clark, and will not hold any grudges if everything works out shortly. But there is precious little to provide faith that this is a franchise improving move at present. And that is my constant focus, is the franchise improving or waning. Things move fast in the NFL, but stinks linger. And I can't help but sense this move puts a stink on the desirability of the GM position itself, steels the resolve of some pro-Dorsey interests in the league [including Dorsey wherever he lands], and may metastasize to player desire and attraction.

BlackOp · 06-26-2017, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splatbass

He fired both.

He should fire himself...he chose them.

splatbass · 06-26-2017, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I don't hate Clark, and will not hold any grudges if everything works out shortly. But there is precious little to provide faith that this is a franchise improving move at present. And that is my constant focus, is the franchise improving or waning. Things move fast in the NFL, but stinks linger. And I can't help but sense this move puts a stink on the desirability of the GM position itself, steels the resolve of some pro-Dorsey interests in the league [including Dorsey wherever he lands], and may metastasize to player desire and attraction.

We don't know what happened. We do know that we have probably the best 53 in the league and lots of reason for hope. I'm also pretty sure this is a prime job for any GM candidate. Most have to take over a bad team. It isn't very often that a new GM takes over a team this good. I think the GM position is fine. I also think they will hire from within, so it probably won't matter anyway.

There is no reason to panic (although that never stopped CP before). I believe we will be fine.

BlackOp · 06-26-2017, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I don't hate Clark, and will not hold any grudges if everything works out shortly. But there is precious little to provide faith that this is a franchise improving move at present. And that is my constant focus, is the franchise improving or waning. Things move fast in the NFL, but stinks linger. And I can't help but sense this move puts a stink on the desirability of the GM position itself, steels the resolve of some pro-Dorsey interests in the league [including Dorsey wherever he lands], and may metastasize to player desire and attraction.

There are plenty of "yes man" lackeys out there that will take it...old school football guys that can flip a franchise from 2-14 to 12-4...probably not.

splatbass · 06-26-2017, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackOp

He should fire himself...he chose them.

That is stupid. Pioli was the #1 GM candidate, the executive of the year. He was the consensus choice. Every team looking for a GM wanted him. That wasn't Clark's fault, he hired the person that was thought to be the best.

Romeo was a bad choice, but the players seemed to respond to him and play well after Haley was fired, so I'm not not sure giving him one year was that bad. We weren't winning that year anyway.

Plus, you believe it is fixed so it shouldn't matter who the coach or GM is, right?

BlackOp · 06-26-2017, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splatbass

That is stupid. Pioli was the #1 GM candidate, the executive of the year. He was the consensus choice. Every team looking for a GM wanted him. That wasn't Clark's fault, he hired the person that was thought to be the best.

Romeo was a bad choice, but the players seemed to respond to him and play well after Haley was fired, so I'm not not sure giving him one year was that bad. We weren't winning that year anyway.

Plus, you believe it is fixed so it shouldn't matter who the coach or GM is, right?

It doesn't matter..much like our correspondence. Hunt oversaw the people who created the worst team in the NFL...that is a fact.

splatbass · 06-26-2017, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackOp

It doesn't matter..much like our correspondence. Hunt oversaw the people who created the worst team in the NFL...that is a fact.

He also oversaw the team that currently has the best 53 man roster in the league. You can't blame him for the bad without giving him credit for the good.

BlackOp · 06-26-2017, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splatbass

He also oversaw the team that currently has the best 53 man roster in the league. You can't blame him for the bad without giving him credit for the good.

He just fired the guy who built it...Chunt had nothing to do with Dorsey coming here.. that foresight belongs to Reid.

splatbass · 06-26-2017, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackOp

He just fired the guy who built it...Chunt had nothing to do with Dorsey coming here.. that foresight belongs to Reid.

Hunt hired Dorsey, and Dorsey reported directly to him, not to Reid.

BlackOp · 06-26-2017, 01:39 AM

Hunt didn't pursue Dorsey...it was Reid. Chunt just signed the contract...

splatbass · 06-26-2017, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackOp

Hunt didn't pursue Dorsey...it was Reid. Chunt just signed and approved the contract...

FYP

Hog's Gone Fishin · 06-26-2017, 02:19 AM

As much as I hated Pioli at the end you can look back and say things would have been different for him if he had a QB and a HC that was worth a damn.

**Baby Lee** · 06-26-2017, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splatbass

We don't know what happened. We do know that we have probably the best 53 in the league and lots of reason for hope. I'm also pretty sure this is a prime job for any GM candidate. Most have to take over a bad team. It isn't very often that a new GM takes over a team this good. I think the GM position is fine. I also think they will hire from within, so it probably won't matter anyway.

There is no reason to panic (although that never stopped CP before). I believe we will be fine.

No one wants to be the GM version of Barry Switzer, particularly without the recent B2B SBs to placate the fanbase.

Rasputin · 06-26-2017, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog Farmer

As much as I hated Pioli at the end you can look back and say things would have been different for him if he had a QB and a HC that was worth a damn.

Who's fault to blame for that? Pioli that was his job to bring in coach and quarterback and he failed miserably. I don't get the gist of your post? Now if it wasn't ego he would have fixed his problem with quarterback and let Haley actually coach the team. That was his failure.

06-25-2017, 02:52 PM
Quesadilla Joe Abolish The Salary Cap! Join Date: Mar 2008 Casino cash: $4078675	Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey A lot of new information/quotes in this article... http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html Spoiler! The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork. They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks. But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity. As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.” A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned. Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired. While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs. While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser. “He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey. That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team. “He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.” “It’s more about his management skills,” another source added. For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization. “Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.” Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others. “It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said. Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths. “Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.” “He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.” Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star. “He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said. “One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.” Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation. “A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.” Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless. “He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.” It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM. “I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.” Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two. “We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM. “To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.” Last edited by Quesadilla Joe; 06-25-2017 at 03:11 PM..
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06-26-2017, 01:39 AM	#116
BlackOp MVP Join Date: Oct 2012 Casino cash: $5875267	Hunt didn't pursue Dorsey...it was Reid. Chunt just signed the contract...
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06-26-2017, 02:19 AM	#118
Hog's Gone Fishin Fish are scared of me Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $1680477	As much as I hated Pioli at the end you can look back and say things would have been different for him if he had a QB and a HC that was worth a damn.
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