Chiefs Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey - Page 6

Quesadilla Joe · 03:11 PM

A lot of new information/quotes in this article...

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html

Spoiler!

The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork.

They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks.

But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity.

As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.”

A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned.

Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired.

While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs.

While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser.

“He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey.

That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team.

“He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.”

“It’s more about his management skills,” another source added.

For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization.

“Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.”

Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others.

“It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said.

Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths.

“Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.”

“He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.”

Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star.

“He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said.

“One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.”

Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation.

“A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.”

Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless.

“He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.”

It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM.

“I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.”

Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two.

“We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM.

“To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.”

Reerun_KC · 06-25-2017, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Because you're a drunken fool

I never said I agreed or disagreed with it. Just that it was an interesting take on the situation....

So.... Knock off the bullshit and get over yourself...

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-25-2017, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackOp

I'm wondering if the way Charles left had anything to do with it. He WAS the teams superstar and seemed disgruntled. He carried more weight in KC than Maclin...he was a legacy player.

No

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-25-2017, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

I never said I agreed or disagreed with it. Just that it was an interesting take on the situation....

So.... Knock off the bullshit and get over yourself...

You first

Reerun_KC · 06-25-2017, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

You first

.

**cdcox** · 06-25-2017, 10:04 PM

Geez, The Chiefs aren't going to regret not re-signing Maclin. No one expects the Chiefs to win a with Alex Smith or a first year starter Mahomes. Investing those $ elsewhere is the smart move.

Chiefshrink · 06-25-2017, 10:05 PM

Dorsey knows why he was fired and like some of you said we may never know the real story. But to have this all happen a month before training camp and then give Andy his big deal on the day he was fired is a "huge passive/aggressive tell" IMHO and why I think Dorsey was caught talking to GB "again" when he was told not to or denied it to Clark the first time when the rumors came out awhile back.

**cdcox** · 06-25-2017, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

How are you a professor?

Lots of hard work and lots of school.

splatbass · 06-25-2017, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace

You can come up with nitpicks about Dorsey. But I have yet to hear anything that is a reasonable justification for firing the most successful GM in the NFL in the past 4 years.

Clearly they haven't told us everything. There has to be more to the story.

splatbass · 06-25-2017, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

I don't blame Hunt for hiring Pioli and give him credit for cutting him loose. Dorsey wasn't bad and he wasn't mediocre. The organization was functioning well and Hunt though so in January (firing season) and May (franchise defining draft deal). No new info has has emerged since then that would upset this evaluation. Hunt has not presented a viable reason for cutting Dorsey loose given his inaction this off season.

The fact that you don't know the reason in no way means there isn't a viable reason. All we have is a bunch of guys speculating because there is no actual information out there.

-King- · 06-25-2017, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

Geez, The Chiefs aren't going to regret not re-signing Maclin. No one expects the Chiefs to win a with Alex Smith or a first year starter Mahomes. Investing those $ elsewhere is the smart move.

Only place they can invest that money is on the rookies. It's not like they can sign good free agents with it. You see the problem with that going forward? If we have to cut veterans to sign rookies, what's going to happen when we have to sign Hill, Chris Jones and Mahomes?
Posted via Mobile Device

tk13 · 06-25-2017, 10:20 PM

We do know the timing of it is extremely bizarre. Firing Dorsey would be one thing... I still can't think of another situation where a successful GM got fired a month before the season. In any sport.

BlackOp · 06-25-2017, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

No

We can all agree that something happened in the last few weeks....and all signs point to CHunt making a spontaneous decision.

Maybe his satanic overlords instructed him to do it...

Hunt looks like he has dark secrets...his hair creeps me the **** out. When you cast no reflection in mirrors...thats the type of hairstyle you get. Goldman-Sachs "power-wig".

Chiefshrink · 06-25-2017, 10:23 PM

"Communication and Management style" ? Really? After just sneaking up past everyone to nab Mahomes while drafting some serious talent in the last 4yrs ? "Communication and Management style are code words for "Dorsey really pissed off Clark behind closed doors" but we can't give you the real reason/reasons so instead we will just give you "nitpicking reasons".

**cdcox** · 06-25-2017, 10:39 PM

Pioli lasted as GM for four years and it took air planes flying around Arrowhead, a 2-12 record, and a murder-suicide in the stadium parking lot. What did Dorsey do to deserve such a short tenure? The most reasonable explanation is another bad move by bad ownership.

Miles · 06-25-2017, 10:40 PM

Are we sure that Dane isn't actually a PR person for the team?

06-25-2017, 02:52 PM
Quesadilla Joe Abolish The Salary Cap! Join Date: Mar 2008 Casino cash: $4078675	Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey A lot of new information/quotes in this article... http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html Spoiler! The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork. They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks. But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity. As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.” A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned. Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired. While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs. While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser. “He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey. That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team. “He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.” “It’s more about his management skills,” another source added. For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization. “Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.” Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others. “It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said. Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths. “Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.” “He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.” Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star. “He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said. “One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.” Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation. “A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.” Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless. “He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.” It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM. “I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.” Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two. “We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM. “To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.” Last edited by Quesadilla Joe; 06-25-2017 at 03:11 PM..
Posts: 19,691

06-25-2017, 10:04 PM	#80
cdcox www.nfl-forecast.com Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $2331769	Geez, The Chiefs aren't going to regret not re-signing Maclin. No one expects the Chiefs to win a with Alex Smith or a first year starter Mahomes. Investing those $ elsewhere is the smart move.
Posts: 45,536

06-25-2017, 10:20 PM	#86
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $1962500	We do know the timing of it is extremely bizarre. Firing Dorsey would be one thing... I still can't think of another situation where a successful GM got fired a month before the season. In any sport.
Posts: 54,954

06-25-2017, 10:39 PM	#89
cdcox www.nfl-forecast.com Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $2331769	Pioli lasted as GM for four years and it took air planes flying around Arrowhead, a 2-12 record, and a murder-suicide in the stadium parking lot. What did Dorsey do to deserve such a short tenure? The most reasonable explanation is another bad move by bad ownership.
Posts: 45,536

06-25-2017, 10:40 PM	#90
Miles MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Casino cash: $1642400	Are we sure that Dane isn't actually a PR person for the team?
Posts: 14,521