Chiefs Salary Cap Exercise: Poe & Berry - Page 6

Direckshun · 11-14-2016, 08:00 AM

We have ourselves an intellectual challenge, Planeteers.

This offseason we have two major free agents, NT Dontari Poe and S Eric Berry.

Both, it seems, are irreplaceable. Howard/Poe/Bailey with Chris Jones and RNR coming in is far superior than Jones/Howard/Bailey with RNR and King coming in. And we have NO replacement for Eric Berry on this roster.

So. We're basically at the cap right now. Signing them both long-term is an option -- if that's the case, their cap hit that first year (2017) is going to be, what, $5-6m each? Though it'll balloon in coming years.

The more likely scenario is that we sign Berry, and franchise Poe. The franchise tag for DTs should be $14m in 2017.

So that's a rough maximum of $20m you'd need to find for 2017.

Here's the roster (be sure to click over to 2017).

Find me $20m.

Go.

**The Franchise** · 11-14-2016, 12:19 PM

Anybody think Peters is going to get $100 million when it's his turn?

**jjchieffan** · 11-14-2016, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

That's fine. So then can we throw out the Dareus argument and find some true NT's and see what they get paid?

That was the whole point of my argument. True NT's don't get paid that well. And that's what Poe is.

I already did that in this thread. But everyone ignored it. No other NT in the league touches what he gets. Jaye Howard is the second highest NT in the league at $5mil/year according to Overthecap.com

**SAUTO** · 11-14-2016, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Anybody think Peters is going to get $100 million when it's his turn?

Of course, maybe not from us, but he's getting it

**BossChief** · 11-14-2016, 12:34 PM

In all honesty, I think Berry is as good as gone.

Andy Reid's comment about "you can't pay everyone as the best in the NFL, you have this cap thing you have to keep in mind"...when directly asked about the contract with Berry.

I'd love to keep him, but not at more than 13m per season.

**jjchieffan** · 11-14-2016, 12:34 PM

Marcell Dareus Bills $95,100,000 $15,850,000 $42,900,000 $7,150,000 2022 UFA
Jaye Howard Chiefs $10,000,000 $5,000,000 $5,760,000 $2,880,000 57.6% 2018 UFA
Brandon Mebane Chargers $13,500,000 $4,500,000 $5,500,000 $1,833,333 407% 2019 UFA
Vince Wilfork Texans $9,000,000 $4,500,000 $5,000,000 $2,500,000 55.6% 2017 UFA
Sammie Lee Hill $11,400,000 $3,800,000 $4,000,000 $1,333,333 35.1% 2016 UFA
Letroy Guion Packers $11,250,000 $3,750,000 $500,000 $166,667 4.4% 2019 UFA
Al Woods Titans $10,500,000 $3,500,000 $3,750,000 $1,250,000 35.7% 2019 UFA
Steve McLendon Jets $10,500,000 $3,500,000 $4,000,000 $1,333,333 38.1% 2019 UFA
Chris Baker Redskins $9,000,000 $3,000,000 $3,950,000 $1,316,667 43.9% 2017 UFA
Corey Peters Cardinals $9,000,000 $3,000,000 $4,000,000 $1,333,333 44.4% 2018 UFA
Danny Shelton Browns $11,703,670 $2,925,918 $6,771,760 $1,692,940 57.9% 2019 OFA
Dontari Poe Chiefs $11,320,006 $2,830,002 $11,320,006 $2,830,002 100.0% 2017 UFA
Kenny Clark Packers $9,361,642 $2,340,411 $7,635,055 $1,908,764 81.6% 2020 UFA
Sean Lissemore Chargers $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $3,170,000 $1,056,667 52.8% 2017 UFA
Sylvester Williams Broncos $7,581,750 $1,895,438 $6,142,875 $1,535,718 81.1% 2017 UFA
Corbin Bryant Bills $1,671,000 $1,671,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2017 UFA
Eddie Goldman Bears $5,686,314 $1,421,579 $3,523,969 $880,992 62.0% 2019 UFA
Austin Johnson Titans $5,662,228 $1,415,557 $3,475,358 $868,840 61.4% 2020 UFA
Ego Ferguson Bears $4,113,204 $1,028,301 $1,918,384 $479,596 46.6% 2018 UFA
Kedric Golston Redskins $1,005,000 $1,005,000 $0 $0 0 2017 UFA
Cullen Jenkins Redskins $985,000 $985,000 $0 $0 0 2017 UFA
Barry Cofield Giants $870,000 $870,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2016 UFA
Javon Hargrave Steelers $3,114,256 $778,564 $693,256 $173,314 22.3% 2020 UFA
Carl Davis Ravens $2,952,334 $738,084 $625,084 $156,271 21.2% 2019 UFA
Willie Henry
Ravens
$2,723,392 $680,848 $383,392 $95,848 141% 2020 UFA
Brandon Williams
Ravens
$2,675,000 $668,750 $515,000 $128,750 19.3% 2017 UFA
Brandon Dunn
Texans
$1,290,000 $645,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2018 RFA
D.J. Reader
Texans
$2,555,380 $638,845 $215,830 $53,957 8.4% 2020 UFA
David Parry
Colts
$2,500,008 $625,002 $220,008 $55,002 8.8% 2019 UFA
Nicholas Williams
Dolphins
$600,000 $600,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2017 RFA
Darius Kilgo
Broncos
$2,391,556 $597,889 $111,556 $27,889 4.7% 2019 UFA
Christian Covington
Texans
$2,370,484 $592,621 $90,484 $22,621 3.8% 2019 UFA
Daniel McCullers
Steelers
$2,298,680 $574,670 $78,680 $19,670 3.4% 2018 UFA
Deon Simon
Jets
$1,140,000 $570,000 $0 $0 0 2018 ERFA
Nile Lawrence-Stample
Browns
$1,620,000 $540,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2019 UFA
Michael Pierce
Ravens
$1,620,000 $540,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2019 UFA
Zamir Carlis
Chargers
$1,620,000 $540,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2019 RFA
Xavier Williams
Cardinals
$1,583,000 $527,667 $8,000 $2,667 0.5% 2018 RFA
T.Y. McGill
Colts
$1,575,000 $525,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2018 RFA
Mike Pennel
Packers
$1,533,500 $511,167 $3,500 $1,167 0.2% 2017 RFA
Mike Purcell
49ers
$1,530,000 $510,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2017 ERFA
Christian Ringo
Packers
$450,000 $450,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2017 ERFA
Austin Brown
Saints
$435,000 $435,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2016 ERFA

**jjchieffan** · 11-14-2016, 12:37 PM

As you can see. No other NT in the league got close to what Dareus got. The biggest contract total other than his was $13mil. That's not per year. That's total. I think this says that we get him cheaper than we think.

Direckshun · 11-14-2016, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Poe is never, ever mentioned in the national conversation when it comes to discussing defensive linemen. He's not in the same category as guys like Aaron Donald and many teams just drafted effective DT's this year that are playing well, such as Chris Jones.

A few years ago, I'd agree. But lately, defensive tackles have been growing on trees, kind of like versatile tight ends, so I doubt that Poe is going to get some crazy assed contract.

We paid an arm and a leg for Kelce.

Get ready to lose the other arm and leg.

kccrow · 11-14-2016, 12:40 PM

Vince Wilfork made more than any NT not named Dareus when he was with the Patriots and that was a few years ago now. His contract was around 7.5-8 m at that time. Poe is every bit the difference maker as a NT, so I'd expect him to get more than that on the market. No doubt Poe could be an 8+ sack a year guy in a 4-3 1-gap scheme where he can use his amazing strength and athleticism to shoot for the QB. I'm going to guess his value is going to be in the 11-14 m per range, especially when guys like Malik Jackson and Michael Brockers received contracts in that range. He's certainly far more valuable than the average NT making 4.5 or less.

saphojunkie · 11-14-2016, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Sure, he can say that. Doesn't mean shit. That line of thinking already settled with Jimmy Graham when he tried to get paid like a WR because "he was split out wide and in the slot so often".

It was determined that he took most of his snaps as a TE, therefore he is a TE.

Same applies to Poe. He is a NT and will get paid as such.

Except, being a NT doesn't preclude you from a massive contract.

Kiimo · 11-14-2016, 12:48 PM

It really doesn't seem that long since the beginning of the season when Chiefs fans and reporters were unilaterally agreed that the Chiefs screwed up in keeping Berry and letting Sean Smith walk.

So basically I'm going to trust the Chiefs because we're all morons. That said, keep Berry. You have to. Keep Poe. You have to. There are a lot of other players I'm willing to lose.

saphojunkie · 11-14-2016, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Dareus has spent most of his time in a 4-3. Like Gerald McCoy and Aaron Donald, who also get more sacks than Poe, it's an unfair comparison.

Dareus was slotted to play NT with Rex Ryan's scheme that had just been brought to Buffalo. His previous time should be thrown out, not the other way around.

**BossChief** · 11-14-2016, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Poe's agent can say "you play a 34 and he gets do u le at nt eating blocks, if you put him in a different system, he'd be a 10 sack guy".

And I'm not sure he's wrong

Exactly

saphojunkie · 11-14-2016, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

So we can start getting some $$$ figures.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/...ensive-tackle/

If Poe thinks he's gonna get paid Suh or Dareus money he's smoking crack.

Do you think Dareus is the best DT in the league?

Urc Burry · 11-14-2016, 01:03 PM

Would obviously love to keep Berry, but this is a really good safety class coming up. I'm sure Dorsey out some stock into that

Kiimo · 11-14-2016, 01:07 PM

I'm not a big believer in drafting a safety to replace Eric Berry.

That was almost a galactic screw up with Dee Ford (thank god it wasn't) and rolling the dice on a new draft pick to replace your star sure sounds great when you watch Bellichick do it but not so much when you watch the 49ers do it.

11-14-2016, 08:00 AM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $4393447	Salary Cap Exercise: Poe & Berry We have ourselves an intellectual challenge, Planeteers. This offseason we have two major free agents, NT Dontari Poe and S Eric Berry. Both, it seems, are irreplaceable. Howard/Poe/Bailey with Chris Jones and RNR coming in is far superior than Jones/Howard/Bailey with RNR and King coming in. And we have NO replacement for Eric Berry on this roster. So. We're basically at the cap right now. Signing them both long-term is an option -- if that's the case, their cap hit that first year (2017) is going to be, what, $5-6m each? Though it'll balloon in coming years. The more likely scenario is that we sign Berry, and franchise Poe. The franchise tag for DTs should be $14m in 2017. So that's a rough maximum of $20m you'd need to find for 2017. Here's the roster (be sure to click over to 2017). Find me $20m. Go.
Posts: 59,262

11-14-2016, 12:19 PM	#76
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $3125047	Anybody think Peters is going to get $100 million when it's his turn?
Posts: 92,102

11-14-2016, 12:34 PM	#79
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $1894088	In all honesty, I think Berry is as good as gone. Andy Reid's comment about "you can't pay everyone as the best in the NFL, you have this cap thing you have to keep in mind"...when directly asked about the contract with Berry. I'd love to keep him, but not at more than 13m per season. __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,124

11-14-2016, 12:34 PM	#80
jjchieffan Supporter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Highlandville, MO Casino cash: $3422247	Marcell Dareus Bills $95,100,000 $15,850,000 $42,900,000 $7,150,000 2022 UFA Jaye Howard Chiefs $10,000,000 $5,000,000 $5,760,000 $2,880,000 57.6% 2018 UFA Brandon Mebane Chargers $13,500,000 $4,500,000 $5,500,000 $1,833,333 407% 2019 UFA Vince Wilfork Texans $9,000,000 $4,500,000 $5,000,000 $2,500,000 55.6% 2017 UFA Sammie Lee Hill $11,400,000 $3,800,000 $4,000,000 $1,333,333 35.1% 2016 UFA Letroy Guion Packers $11,250,000 $3,750,000 $500,000 $166,667 4.4% 2019 UFA Al Woods Titans $10,500,000 $3,500,000 $3,750,000 $1,250,000 35.7% 2019 UFA Steve McLendon Jets $10,500,000 $3,500,000 $4,000,000 $1,333,333 38.1% 2019 UFA Chris Baker Redskins $9,000,000 $3,000,000 $3,950,000 $1,316,667 43.9% 2017 UFA Corey Peters Cardinals $9,000,000 $3,000,000 $4,000,000 $1,333,333 44.4% 2018 UFA Danny Shelton Browns $11,703,670 $2,925,918 $6,771,760 $1,692,940 57.9% 2019 OFA Dontari Poe Chiefs $11,320,006 $2,830,002 $11,320,006 $2,830,002 100.0% 2017 UFA Kenny Clark Packers $9,361,642 $2,340,411 $7,635,055 $1,908,764 81.6% 2020 UFA Sean Lissemore Chargers $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $3,170,000 $1,056,667 52.8% 2017 UFA Sylvester Williams Broncos $7,581,750 $1,895,438 $6,142,875 $1,535,718 81.1% 2017 UFA Corbin Bryant Bills $1,671,000 $1,671,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2017 UFA Eddie Goldman Bears $5,686,314 $1,421,579 $3,523,969 $880,992 62.0% 2019 UFA Austin Johnson Titans $5,662,228 $1,415,557 $3,475,358 $868,840 61.4% 2020 UFA Ego Ferguson Bears $4,113,204 $1,028,301 $1,918,384 $479,596 46.6% 2018 UFA Kedric Golston Redskins $1,005,000 $1,005,000 $0 $0 0 2017 UFA Cullen Jenkins Redskins $985,000 $985,000 $0 $0 0 2017 UFA Barry Cofield Giants $870,000 $870,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2016 UFA Javon Hargrave Steelers $3,114,256 $778,564 $693,256 $173,314 22.3% 2020 UFA Carl Davis Ravens $2,952,334 $738,084 $625,084 $156,271 21.2% 2019 UFA Willie Henry Ravens $2,723,392 $680,848 $383,392 $95,848 141% 2020 UFA Brandon Williams Ravens $2,675,000 $668,750 $515,000 $128,750 19.3% 2017 UFA Brandon Dunn Texans $1,290,000 $645,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2018 RFA D.J. Reader Texans $2,555,380 $638,845 $215,830 $53,957 8.4% 2020 UFA David Parry Colts $2,500,008 $625,002 $220,008 $55,002 8.8% 2019 UFA Nicholas Williams Dolphins $600,000 $600,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2017 RFA Darius Kilgo Broncos $2,391,556 $597,889 $111,556 $27,889 4.7% 2019 UFA Christian Covington Texans $2,370,484 $592,621 $90,484 $22,621 3.8% 2019 UFA Daniel McCullers Steelers $2,298,680 $574,670 $78,680 $19,670 3.4% 2018 UFA Deon Simon Jets $1,140,000 $570,000 $0 $0 0 2018 ERFA Nile Lawrence-Stample Browns $1,620,000 $540,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2019 UFA Michael Pierce Ravens $1,620,000 $540,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2019 UFA Zamir Carlis Chargers $1,620,000 $540,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2019 RFA Xavier Williams Cardinals $1,583,000 $527,667 $8,000 $2,667 0.5% 2018 RFA T.Y. McGill Colts $1,575,000 $525,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2018 RFA Mike Pennel Packers $1,533,500 $511,167 $3,500 $1,167 0.2% 2017 RFA Mike Purcell 49ers $1,530,000 $510,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2017 ERFA Christian Ringo Packers $450,000 $450,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2017 ERFA Austin Brown Saints $435,000 $435,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2016 ERFA __________________ Genesis 1:1 In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth. Following the historical accounts and the genealogy from that point on, the age of the Earth is approximately 6000-7000 years old. The Big Bullshit Theory is a lie. It and the evolution theory go against real science. Satan has used our public school system to brainwash everyone into believing these lies. Be not decieved.
Posts: 12,601

11-14-2016, 12:37 PM	#81
jjchieffan Supporter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Highlandville, MO Casino cash: $3422247	As you can see. No other NT in the league got close to what Dareus got. The biggest contract total other than his was $13mil. That's not per year. That's total. I think this says that we get him cheaper than we think. __________________ Genesis 1:1 In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth. Following the historical accounts and the genealogy from that point on, the age of the Earth is approximately 6000-7000 years old. The Big Bullshit Theory is a lie. It and the evolution theory go against real science. Satan has used our public school system to brainwash everyone into believing these lies. Be not decieved.
Posts: 12,601

11-14-2016, 12:40 PM	#83
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $3257078	Vince Wilfork made more than any NT not named Dareus when he was with the Patriots and that was a few years ago now. His contract was around 7.5-8 m at that time. Poe is every bit the difference maker as a NT, so I'd expect him to get more than that on the market. No doubt Poe could be an 8+ sack a year guy in a 4-3 1-gap scheme where he can use his amazing strength and athleticism to shoot for the QB. I'm going to guess his value is going to be in the 11-14 m per range, especially when guys like Malik Jackson and Michael Brockers received contracts in that range. He's certainly far more valuable than the average NT making 4.5 or less.
Posts: 12,623

11-14-2016, 12:48 PM	#85
Kiimo MVP Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Studio City, CA Casino cash: $4088742	It really doesn't seem that long since the beginning of the season when Chiefs fans and reporters were unilaterally agreed that the Chiefs screwed up in keeping Berry and letting Sean Smith walk. So basically I'm going to trust the Chiefs because we're all morons. That said, keep Berry. You have to. Keep Poe. You have to. There are a lot of other players I'm willing to lose.
Posts: 12,553

11-14-2016, 01:03 PM	#89
Urc Burry Veteran Join Date: Jan 2011 Casino cash: $9041048	Would obviously love to keep Berry, but this is a really good safety class coming up. I'm sure Dorsey out some stock into that
Posts: 2,451

11-14-2016, 01:07 PM	#90
Kiimo MVP Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Studio City, CA Casino cash: $4088742	I'm not a big believer in drafting a safety to replace Eric Berry. That was almost a galactic screw up with Dee Ford (thank god it wasn't) and rolling the dice on a new draft pick to replace your star sure sounds great when you watch Bellichick do it but not so much when you watch the 49ers do it.
Posts: 12,553