Better Call Saul

[rico]

As I am sure many of y'all already know, a spinoff of "Breaking Bad" titled "Better Call Saul" will be airing in 2014. This is going to be a prequel to Breaking Bad and will be based on the character of Saul Goodman from "Breaking Bad."

I, for one, will be watching. I'm sure the majority of all of you other "Breaking Bad" fans will be as well. Might as well get the discussion going sooner rather than later.

So... what are your hopes, expectations and/or concerns with the show? Here are some of mine:

Hopes: I hope to see Saul do his thing in the courtroom. I hope to see strong, unique supporting characters. I hope to see Breaking Bad foreshadowing. I hope he has an intriguing paralegal and/or assistant. I hope to see Breaking Bad characters such as Fring, Mike, etc...whoever. I hope the show kicks ass.

Expectations: I don't expect it to be as good as "Breaking Bad" (because nothing else is, really), but I expect it to be good since Vince Gilligan is writing. I somewhat expect it to have an even balance of comedy and drama...since Saul undeniably provides a substantial amount of comedic relief in "Breaking Bad." I expect to see "courtroom Saul." I expect the "Breaking Bad" references and character cameos to be less than what I hope. If it isn't even a fraction as good as "Breaking Bad," I expect it to be better than 95% of everything else on TV, since there is some shitty shit on TV these days.

Concerns: I'd be a liar if I were to say that I didn't think this show has potential of flopping and certainly failing to meet the presumed high expectations of the audience. Don't get me wrong, I think it will be good... but I think it COULD suck if not executed properly. My main concern is Saul ultimately proving himself to be a "little dab will do ya" type of character, which would lead to a show centered around his character not working out. I am hoping that the character of Saul will not be so over-used and constantly over the top, that he becomes annoying to me, thus ruining his character for me altogether... Not saying I think this will be how it goes down...just saying I think there is a CHANCE of this being the case, which prompts me to believe that a strong supporting cast is VITAL in terms of the amount of success/quality this show will accumulate. All in all, I don't think VG will steer us in an unfortunate direction though...I think they'll pull it off.

Thoughts?

DISCUS!!!!

[Molitoth]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I think it's far more likely that Chuck ends up institutionalized than dead. The ending of the episode this week further drove home the psychosomatic nature of his illness, and since he knows he was fine before Jimmy said something to him, it's likely that it will further reinforce the inconsistency of his illness to himself, lumping self-doubt on top of psychosis.

Also, using his printing code will likely be used as an excuse from cashing Chuck out, as HHM can say that he was capable of working, as evidenced by the code usage. Thus their pittance of a pay-off will be seen as justifiable because Chuck "could" work, but chose not to.

So, Chuck ends up 1) institutionalized and 2) without any remuneration from the firm he built.

On top of that, Jimmy will lose the right to use his name, as foreshadowed earlier this season, and based on what he's seen, there's not really much of a reason not to become a criminal lawyer, because where does being upstanding get you?

Damn dude, I think you nailed it.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by L.A. Chieffan

There's definitely a problem with the timeline on this show and with BB. This show is set sometime in the mid to late 90's and BB in the late 00's however Mike's granddaughter is basically the same age. Sucks, but I guess there was no way around it.

Edit: I see now that BCS takes place in 2002, 6 years before Breaking Bad which closes the gap a bit but still can't hide the fact that she hadn't really aged at all. They should've made her an infant in BCS

Kaylee was 10 years old in Breaking Bad. Faith Healey (the actress who plays Kaylee in BCS) is four.

[RobBlake]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

It's pretty rare for me to get so immersed into a story that I actually get pissed off that it ends so soon. This show does that almost every week. Yesterday's episode wasn't all that action packed but the story is so good that I just get lost in it.
I'm really curious as to how this lawsuit gets derailed. It's also looking fairly likely that we're going to see Mr. Fring here pretty quick.

why do you say that?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

It's pretty rare for me to get so immersed into a story that I actually get pissed off that it ends so soon. This show does that almost every week. Yesterday's episode wasn't all that action packed but the story is so good that I just get lost in it.
I'm really curious as to how this lawsuit gets derailed. It's also looking fairly likely that we're going to see Mr. Fring here pretty quick.

I'm hoping we get at least another season, if not two, before further elements of Breaking Bad appear.

The show is great as a stand alone, IMO. There is quite a bit left yet to mine before they need to go there.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I'm hoping we get at least another season, if not two, before further elements of Breaking Bad appear.

The show is great as a stand alone, IMO. There is quite a bit left yet to mine before they need to go there.

Yep. I think Gus should come in at the end of Season 2/Beginning of Season 3.

Watching Gus face off against a pre-stroke Hector Salamanca would have BB fans lubing up across the country.

[eDave]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

Yep. I think Gus should come in at the end of Season 2/Beginning of Season 3.

Watching Gus face off against a pre-stroke Hector Salamanca would have BB fans lubing up across the country.

Heh.

[frankotank]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I've never seen a TV program with so many expectations from fans and media actually immdiately exceed those lofty expectations.

I was positive I'd hate it. absolutely positive.

1 - BB is damn near hallowed ground. don't **** with it!
2 - I thought they'd expand/exploit Sauls humorous side....make it some stupid comedy

never been so happy to be wrong

[Fire Me Boy!]

Originally Posted by frankotank

I was positive I'd hate it. absolutely positive.

1 - BB is damn near hallowed ground. don't **** with it!
2 - I thought they'd expand/exploit Sauls humorous side....make it some stupid comedy

never been so happy to be wrong

I think it was originally thought to be a half-hour sitcom. They got to working on it and decided that wasn't the right way to go.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I think it's far more likely that Chuck ends up institutionalized than dead. The ending of the episode this week further drove home the psychosomatic nature of his illness, and since he knows he was fine before Jimmy said something to him, it's likely that it will further reinforce the inconsistency of his illness to himself, lumping self-doubt on top of psychosis.

Also, using his printing code will likely be used as an excuse from cashing Chuck out, as HHM can say that he was capable of working, as evidenced by the code usage. Thus their pittance of a pay-off will be seen as justifiable because Chuck "could" work, but chose not to.

So, Chuck ends up 1) institutionalized and 2) without any remuneration from the firm he built.

On top of that, Jimmy will lose the right to use his name, as foreshadowed earlier this season, and based on what he's seen, there's not really much of a reason not to become a criminal lawyer, because where does being upstanding get you?

TL;DR - long and boring stuff:

Spoiler!

The buyout thing is an interesting one.

In a standard legal partnership, Chuck would be entitled to a literal 1/3 interest of the value of the firm if they bought him out of it. That would include goodwill value and all kinds of fun shit. The 'pittance' of a buyout wouldn't be - it would be easily in the millions of dollars and if the firm is as advertised by the show, potentially tens of millions of dollars. There are companies that specialize in appraising businesses and I'm sure they'd put a nice sum on a high-dollar corporate firm.

I agree, using Chuck's code was a really bad move in that it absolutely shows Chuck working in his capacity as a partner at HHM. I've never known of any partnership agreement that allows for freelancing outside of the firm, especially in a field that the firm would occupy (as a general practice litigation firm, that's pretty much anywhere). If nothing else, the malpractice exposure prevents it - he's still protected by a malpractice policy issued by HHM and if he ended up in a malpractice suit or some kind of malicious prosecution counter-suit, HHM would arguably be on the line now.

Hell, even if the agreement allows for it, he's arguably violated his duty of loyalty by diverting the opportunity (and obviously the assets). At that point he could be forced turn over any profits that come from it to HHM, though that wouldn't necessarily speak to Jimmy's half. That's why I don't think HHM can completely horn in here - somehow Jimmy likely gets completely hung out and it's hard for that to happen just by involving Chuck, even as an HHM partner. These were still Jimmy's clients first - he'd be entitled to a big chunk if he stayed on as co-counsel, even if Chuck's labors were awarded to HHM.

It really would get incredibly nasty but that's kinda why I think it won't happen. It's the kind of shit that could/should hijack that show and suddenly it becomes an actual legal drama instead of a character study that happens to involve a lawyer. Obviously that isn't the direction they want to go with this show.

The cleaner out is to simply have Chuck die and his estate go to charity or something. At that point Jimmy wouldn't get the substantial buyout that Chuck is due via any kind of inheritance. He couldn't stand up to HHM because even if he has the chops, he doesn't have the resources. And HHM would have an easy avenue to substituting Hamlin as counsel (who could then force out Jimmy or buy him out cheap).

Then again, these guys are way better writers than me so it's seems likely that they'd avoid writing themselves into a corner.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by notorious

I think that HHM see's that Chuck is working on the case by using his code.


Therefore, they can bill for it, screwing over McGill.

It wouldn't screw over McGill.

Yes, they could bill on it, but only for the time that Chuck actually spends. Moreover, that wouldn't come at the expense of Jimmy, provided that Jimmy is also working on it. Hell, who knows what his arrangement is with his clients but in the case of atty fee liens, they're distributed pro-rata. Well why wouldn't Chuck just fudge his numbers? Say he did 1/3 of the work. Even if he's billing at 3 times the rate, the split would be 50/50 of the fees earned and Jimmy'd still get a nice piece.

Co-Counsel arrangements exist all the time. That scenario shouldn't have any impact on Jimmy - who it would screw over is Chuck.

There has to be something more exotic than that to really blow Jimmy out of the water, unless the writers just play fast and loose with how those fee arrangements/buyouts are structured.

[frankotank]

Jimmy's pretty lawyer friend.....man....she gonna die. I just know it! and I'm thinking THAT is what creates Saul. pushes him out of the good guy box.

I'm thinking the nursing home lawyers hire a hit man or something and that somehow someway she gets offed....maybe by accident.....maybe to try and scare Jimmy. we already know they are crooked as shit. they are perfectly fine with robbing old people. so how far will they go to protect themselves and their cash cow? how bad ARE THEY? well if this is in the BB universe so......yikes.

and just maybe....in the midst of this scenario.....Tuco comes back on the scene....

[Fire Me Boy!]

Originally Posted by frankotank

Jimmy's pretty lawyer friend.....man....she gonna die. I just know it! and I'm thinking THAT is what creates Saul. pushes him out of the good guy box.

I'm thinking the nursing home lawyers hire a hit man or something and that somehow someway she gets offed....maybe by accident.....maybe to try and scare Jimmy. we already know they are crooked as shit. they are perfectly fine with robbing old people. so how far will they go to protect themselves and their cash cow? how bad ARE THEY? well if this is in the BB universe so......yikes.

and just maybe....in the midst of this scenario.....Tuco comes back on the scene....

It's a stretch to say the lawyers are "perfectly fine with robbing old people." We know the people who run the home are fine with it; otherwise, all we know is the lawyers are fine with taking the home's money to defend them. One does not necessarily equal the other.

[frankotank]

Originally Posted by Fire Me Boy!

It's a stretch to say the lawyers are "perfectly fine with robbing old people." We know the people who run the home are fine with it; otherwise, all we know is the lawyers are fine with taking the home's money to defend them. One does not necessarily equal the other.

OK. point taken. I'll rephrase.

they are perfectly fine defending the pieces of shit who THEY KNOW are robbing old people.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by frankotank

OK. point taken. I'll rephrase.

they are perfectly fine defending the pieces of shit who THEY KNOW are robbing old people.

Adversarial process, hoss - everyone's entitled to representation. Without it, the whole system crashes.

It's funny, but the legal system relies on the guiltiest of the guilty getting representation as well, otherwise the system will just turn into a gulag where the prosecutors become the judge.

There's a major MAJOR leap from 'they'll defend and crooked old folks home' to 'they'll !@#$ing kill people'.

Perhaps it's because I don't have the BB background, but it sure seems like that's a step removed from the fairly grounded reality they've created in BCS to this point.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by frankotank

OK. point taken. I'll rephrase.

they are perfectly fine defending the pieces of shit who THEY KNOW are robbing old people.

And physicians will save the life of the lowliest gang banger or child molester.