Any fishkeepers here? Saltwater or freshwater

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I've found that I really enjoy the shell dwellers; they're fairly small Tanganyikans that breed like rabbits.

My next large tank is gonna be Mbuna cichlids. I just haven't been able to talk my wife into it yet since I have 2 tanks and a large koi pond already.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Here's what I'd suggest - Rainbows.

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/rainbowfish/

They're extremely colorful, like cichlids. They' significantly more docile, though. They'll school better than Cichlids (who mostly just form territories and go to war). They seem to be much more in line with what your wife is looking for. If you're looking for a planed tank, these are unquestionably the way to go. I've had decent luck with them in the past, before I let my freshwater tank go to seed.

I second this suggestion. I was looking to go Boesemani Rainbow before I got into the Colombians...

[Skyy God]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Here's what I'd suggest - Rainbows.

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/rainbowfish/

They're extremely colorful, like cichlids. They' significantly more docile, though. They'll school better than Cichlids (who mostly just form territories and go to war). They seem to be much more in line with what your wife is looking for. If you're looking for a planed tank, these are unquestionably the way to go. I've had decent luck with them in the past, before I let my freshwater tank go to seed.

Excellent suggestion. Assuming your pH is pretty neutral, I'd pair them with some cool catfish, like these Synodontis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synodontis_multipunctata

[Macroach]

For freshwater, I think cichlids are definitely the way to go, but I have always been partial to saltwater, fish with live rock or reef. You have to decide if you want a reef or want some exotic non-reef-safe fish, or even a predator tank (Lionfish, stonefish, etc?). I like the look of a reef tank, so I went with a full SPS/LPS/Soft coral setup.

It's all been said, but I will back up what DJ said about saltwater. I've been into reefkeeping for a few years and it's not harder than freshwater, but it is expensive to get started. The key is to look for someone who is 'tearing down" their tank on CL so you can get all the right equipment.

Just a few key points for the starting marine aquarist:

1. Rule #1 of saltwater is that good things happen slowly, and bad things happen quickly. You will hear this over and over, but it is true. More on this later.

2. Start out with a minimum 55 gallon tank, but larger is better. As DJ mentioned, small saltwater tanks are much harder to maintain. Why? The water parameters for reefkeeping or saltwater change much too quickly in a small tank. Unless you are testing your water every 2 days, you might not catch a problem until your tank is wiped. Water volume is your friend. Get a tank that is either drilled or has a built - in overflow. Hang-on-back overflows with a siphon can work well for years, but it's only a question of when they are going to fail and flood your carpet, not if.

3. When buying equipment, get a good skimmer, and use live rock and live sand. Find used, cured live rock from CL if you can, just be sure it is pest free. Don't skimp on the skimmer. I can write pages on pests endemic to live rock, but in a nutshell - ask the guy/girl if they've ever had problems with aiptasia. If so, don't do it! Go for 1 to 1.5 pounds of LR per gallon of water volume.

4. Use a sump and if you have room, a refugium with chaeto. If you need some, it is shippable and cheap.

5. Lighting - I prioritize skimming over lighting if I have to choose where to upgrade, but that's because there are so many good options with lighting. The best advice is to see a tank with metal halides, T5s, and LEDs, and decide what look you like best. I'm a metal halide guy myself, but I like the shimmer and I am still waiting for LED technology to mature. It's still being debated whether or not LED's can produce the same growth rates and coloration as properly configured T5s or MH.

6. Read up on the process for cycling your first tank. Just be aware that you will most likely spend a month with only water, rocks, and sand in your tank. You can use the salad shrimp technique, or a damsel. I use a couple of damsels, but beware - they are the Oakland Raider fans of the fish world. Once you put other peaceful fish in your tank, the damsels may terrorize them. And the little buggers are VERY hard to catch.

** A rebuttal on the test kits - API kits are ok for freshwater, but for saltwater, you would be well advised to go with Salifert or ELOS. I prefer ELOS. For Ammonia and Nitrite, get the cheaper API kits, because you won't be testing for these too often after your initial tank cycle. After the cycle, you can test for pH, PO4, kH, Mg, Ca with ELOS kits.

I'm getting long-winded, so if PM me if you have any questions about setup, equipment or livestock selection, or tank cycling. I'll be happy to help. My intention when starting the thread reply was to merely make the recommendation that you consider a marine aquarium - the challenge and reward is worth it.

[Lumpy]

"Betas don't play with others very well at all."

This is a very good point as they really do best in their own tank. However, that wasn't the case w/ my Betta. I originally had him in a 10g w/ my African Dwarf Frogs, then my light fixture died. I said screw it and moved the Betta and Frogs to my 55g. Surprisingly, the Betta keeps to himself. I think as long as your Betta is submissive, you have a large enough tank w/ plenty of hiding spots, and no other long-flowing fin fishes in there, it can work, (IME anyway).

Bettas are also notorious for fighting other Labyrinth fishes, (those that swim to the surface for air). For instance, a Dwarf Gourami is a Labyrinth fish and is a cousin of the Betta. But, again, I had a DG in w/ my Betta, and they did fine. Unfortunately, I had to cull the DG last month due to an illness.

That's another thing to prepare for... disease. It doesn't matter if you do things "right", illnesses can attack fish, (freshwater or saltwater), at any time. Having a quarantine/hospital tank is a must in this hobby.

[Fish]

I've lost plenty to disease. Lost a 6 year old severum a few years ago to Popeye disease. That shit is nasty...



Basically the fish's eyes swell up until they eventually explode or the fish dies, or both.

Water quality is usually to blame, but not always. I've heard that often times disease is spread through bad feeder fish you put in the tank.

[Lumpy]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

I've lost plenty to disease. Lost a 6 year old severum a few years ago to Popeye disease. That shit is nasty...

Basically the fish's eyes swell up until they eventually explode or the fish dies, or both.

Water quality is usually to blame, but not always. I've heard that often times disease is spread through bad feeder fish you put in the tank.

That sucks. I've been fortunate and never had to deal w/ Popeye. I've had to deal w/ Ich, Columnaris, Swim Bladder Disease, Bent Spine, and Neon Tetra Disease though and what a pain in the ass! My water quality is pristine too, so I agree that there could be other factors that play into why fish get diseases.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Lumpy

That sucks. I've been fortunate and never had to deal w/ Popeye. I've had to deal w/ Ich, Columnaris, Swim Bladder Disease, Bent Spine, and Neon Tetra Disease though and what a pain in the ass! My water quality is pristine too, so I agree that there could be other factors that play into why fish get diseases.

Popeye is EXTREMELY easy to treat. The best thing you can do is aid medication absorbtion and protect the underlying tissue by swabbing it with Methylene Blue.

The biggest factor that plays into fish susceptibility to disease, IMO, is their origin. Neon tetras have a high mortality rate because they're genetically "watered-down". Some fish, like otocinclus catfish, are fragile because their wild-caught and the methods used are often very traumatic for the fish.

EDIT: I've had virtually ZERO opportunistic infections (Columnaris, Saprolegnia fungus, etc.) since installing a quality UV sterilizer.

FYI, male bettas make GREAT tankmates for community fish. You just can't keep them with fish that are notorious fin-nippers because they'll get abused and you, obviously, can't keep them with other male bettas.

[Dartgod]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Popeye is EXTREMELY easy to treat. The best thing you can do is aid medication absorbtion and protect the underlying tissue by swabbing it with Methylene Blue.

The biggest factor that plays into fish susceptibility to disease, IMO, is their origin. Neon tetras have a high mortality rate because they're genetically "watered-down". Some fish, like otocinclus catfish, are fragile because their wild-caught and the methods used are often very traumatic for the fish.

EDIT: I've had virtually ZERO opportunistic infections (Columnaris, Saprolegnia fungus, etc.) since installing a quality UV sterilizer.

FYI, male bettas make GREAT tankmates for community fish. You just can't keep them with fish that are notorious fin-nippers because they'll get abused and you, obviously, can't keep them with other male bettas.

Whoa!!! Hit Smack!

What are you doing here???

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Popeye is EXTREMELY easy to treat. The best thing you can do is aid medication absorbtion and protect the underlying tissue by swabbing it with Methylene Blue.

The biggest factor that plays into fish susceptibility to disease, IMO, is their origin. Neon tetras have a high mortality rate because they're genetically "watered-down". Some fish, like otocinclus catfish, are fragile because their wild-caught and the methods used are often very traumatic for the fish.

EDIT: I've had virtually ZERO opportunistic infections (Columnaris, Saprolegnia fungus, etc.) since installing a quality UV sterilizer.

FYI, male bettas make GREAT tankmates for community fish. You just can't keep them with fish that are notorious fin-nippers because they'll get abused and you, obviously, can't keep them with other male bettas.

Man this is a blast from the past.

How the hell are you???????

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Popeye is EXTREMELY easy to treat. The best thing you can do is aid medication absorbtion and protect the underlying tissue by swabbing it with Methylene Blue.

The biggest factor that plays into fish susceptibility to disease, IMO, is their origin. Neon tetras have a high mortality rate because they're genetically "watered-down". Some fish, like otocinclus catfish, are fragile because their wild-caught and the methods used are often very traumatic for the fish.

EDIT: I've had virtually ZERO opportunistic infections (Columnaris, Saprolegnia fungus, etc.) since installing a quality UV sterilizer.

FYI, male bettas make GREAT tankmates for community fish. You just can't keep them with fish that are notorious fin-nippers because they'll get abused and you, obviously, can't keep them with other male bettas.

Where the **** you been?

[Lumpy]

I didn't think you were being that harsh, Fish. There is some truth to your post. Cichlids are beautiful and interesting, (I won't argue that). I think the main focus should be to give Silock info on what he prefers. He said that he's had Cichlids in the past, but then mentioned that he wanted to try a planted Community tank. This is why I'm giving my input on the subject.

[Iowanian]

HEY PORKER~ Long time, no see!

[Lumpy]

Somebody knows their plants!

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Lumpy

Somebody knows their plants!

I'm completely obsessed. I've done DIY CO2, built my own powered reactors, I buy granulated fertilizer ingredients online and mix my own ferts, I've built a custom light fixture for my daughter's 14G tank and it goes on and on and on.

I'll post some pics later - all I'm getting right now is the glare coming in from the south door...

[htismaqe]

My 55G tank is on the left. My daughter's 14G tank is on the right.