What's going to happen to our offense when AS, Solari, and company are gone?

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by siberian khatru

Everyone just assumes that Al Saunders would be a good head coach

i don't think everyone is assuming that at all.


people hope that al saunders can maintain the offense while changing it up on defense.


are you assuming that Herm edwards would be able to maintain our current offense?



hope ≠ assume

[siberian khatru]

Originally Posted by Laz

i don't think everyone is assuming that at all.


people hope that al saunders can maintain the offense while changing it up on defense.


are you assuming that Herm edwards would be able to maintain our current offense?



hope ≠ assume

I think that's exactly what people are assuming -- or overlooking. That HC duties are different and they sometimes change people. Many coordinators have failed as HC (and many have succeeded).

"people hope that al saunders can maintain the offense while changing it up on defense." Exactly why Gunther was promoted -- just slide on over to a different chair, all the strengths remain, all the weaknesses improve. Simple. Continuity.

I'm not assuming anything about Herm. But as others have stated here and elsewhere, it would be a blinding act of stupidity and hubris on both Herm's and Carl's part to scrap one of the league's best offenses while maintaining its worst defense.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by siberian khatru

"people hope that al saunders can maintain the offense while changing it up on defense." Exactly why Gunther was promoted -- just slide on over to a different chair, all the strengths remain, all the weaknesses improve. Simple. Continuity.

i don't think that gunther had much to maintain...

back when he had a ready made pass rush with with neil smith and derrick thomas to go along with 2 cornerbacks in hasty and carter his job was relative simple.

he also had a defensive head coach to hold his hand in marty shottenheimer.


the defense has had issues ever since, even with gunther.


on the other hand, i think with al saunders the offensive players have over achieved ... the system has made them better.

can saunders do the same without Vermeil?

can saunders be one of these HC/OC's?



i don't know ... i hope so



i've Never been too impressed with Herm edwards as a head coach in NY.

[siberian khatru]

Originally Posted by Laz

i don't think that gunther had much to maintain...

back when he had a ready made pass with with neil smith and derrick thomas to go along with 2 cornerbacks in hasty and carter his job was relative simple.

he also had a defensive head coach to hold his hand in marty shottenheimer.


the defense has had issues ever since, even with gunther.


on the other hand, i think al saunders the offensive players have over achieved ... the system has made them better.

can saunders do the same without Vermeil?

can saunders be one of these HC/OC's?



i don't know ... i hope so

I agree about the Gun D. In hindsight. At the time though, they thought it was good enough to make another run. They wanted continuity. Just remove Marty from the equation, we can return to the 13-3 days of 1997. That was their thinking. They were dead wrong.

The stuff about Saunders is all valid.

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by Laz

i don't think that gunther had much to maintain...

back when he had a ready made pass with with neil smith and derrick thomas to go along with 2 cornerbacks in hasty and carter his job was relative simple.

he also had a defensive head coach to hold his hand in marty shottenheimer.


the defense has had issues ever since, even with gunther.


on the other hand, i think al saunders the offensive players have over achieved ... the system has made them better.

can saunders do the same without Vermeil?

can saunders be one of these HC/OC's?



i don't know ... i hope so



i've Never been too impressed with Herm edwards as a head coach in NY.

I don't think Saunders had that much to maintain...

Back when he had a ready made running game with Larry Johnson and Priest Holmes to go along with Will Shields, Willie Roaf, and Brian Waters, his job was relatively simple.

He also had an offensive head coach to hold his hand, in Dick vermeil.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by jspchief

I don't think Saunders had that much to maintain...

Back when he had a ready made running game with Larry Johnson and Priest Holmes to go along with Will Shields, Willie Roaf, and Brian Waters, his job was relatively simple.

He also had an offensive head coach to hold his hand, in Dick vermeil.

maintain??? .... saunders and Vermeil built the offense they didn't just maintain it.

with marty and gunther our offense sucked even with the best offense line in the league.


btw - didn't i include Vermeil in my post about saunders as a question mark? don't know why you felt it was a point for you to make then.

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by Laz

maintain??? .... saunders and Vermeil built the offense they didn't just maintain it.

with marty and gunther our offense sucked even with the best offense line in the league.


btw - didn't i include Vermeil in my post about saunders as a question mark? don't know why you felt it was a point for you to make then.

It was a tongue in cheek response to your reasons why Cunningham wasn't a viable HC candidate back in '98. Every reason you gave could be applied to Saunders in the Vermeil era.

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by Laz

i don't think that gunther had much to maintain...

back when he had a ready made pass rush with with neil smith and derrick thomas to go along with 2 cornerbacks in hasty and carter his job was relative simple.

he also had a defensive head coach to hold his hand in marty shottenheimer.


the defense has had issues ever since, even with gunther.


on the other hand, i think with al saunders the offensive players have over achieved ... the system has made them better.

can saunders do the same without Vermeil?

can saunders be one of these HC/OC's?



i don't know ... i hope so



i've Never been too impressed with Herm edwards as a head coach in NY.

He has been to the playoffs two more times than we have been in the 5 years. And he has actually won playoff games... on the road no less.

He will do fine. Our offense will be fine. How could you mess it up? D can't help but improve.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by Coogs

Our offense will be fine. How could you mess it up?

[chiefsfan1963]

He will do fine. Our offense will be fine. How could you mess it up? D can't help but improve.[/QUOTE]

Famous last words!

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by chiefsfan1963

Famous last words!

LJ piled up the yards when Roaf was on the sidelines. And when AS decided to finally run play action when Roaf was out, Green didn't get killed.

Offense will be fine. Defense already sucked.

And FWIW, I still don't think we can beat Indy, Cincy, and a couple of other teams in the playoffs in the AFC on the road this season. And I don't think we are a player away from beating them on the road next season with the same staff we had.

[chiefsfan1963]

Originally Posted by Coogs

LJ piled up the yards when Roaf was on the sidelines. And when AS decided to finally run play action when Roaf was out, Green didn't get killed.

Offense will be fine. Defense already sucked.

And FWIW, I still don't think we can beat Indy, Cincy, and a couple of other teams in the playoffs in the AFC on the road this season. And I don't think we are a player away from beating them on the road next season with the same staff we had.

Totally disagree! I think we could be very dangerous right now if we were in the playoffs. There are many teams grateful that we are not.

Don't ****** up this team by bringing in a whole new coaching staff and philosophy. This is not the time to panic. Stay the course don't give up draft picks keep improving! Promote AS now!!!!!!!

[FringeNC]

A case can be made that Vermeil had nothing to do with this offense. His offense was terrible until Martz got there and took it from near dead last to #1 (by the way, that's what a good coordinator does -- has immediate impact, unlike assuming we have to give Gun 3-4 years to build a respectable D). Saunders, working under Martz learned the offense, and it's Saunders not Vermeil who is the offensive guru.

Again, I am not saying that this is true. Martz was unable to maintain the high-powered offense in St. Loius more than two years I think, before it returned to earth.

The whole Vermeil, Martz, Saunders thing is interesting. How much of the credit goes to Vermeil, and how much goes to Martz/Saunders?

[milkshock]

Originally Posted by FringeNC

A case can be made that Vermeil had nothing to do with this offense. His offense was terrible until Martz got there and took it from near dead last to #1 (by the way, that's what a good coordinator does -- has immediate impact, unlike assuming we have to give Gun 3-4 years to build a respectable D). Saunders, working under Martz learned the offense, and it's Saunders not Vermeil who is the offensive guru.

Again, I am not saying that this is true. Martz was unable to maintain the high-powered offense in St. Loius more than two years I think, before it returned to earth.

The whole Vermeil, Martz, Saunders thing is interesting. How much of the credit goes to Vermeil, and how much goes to Martz/Saunders?

Yes I think Vermeil needs to be give more credit here. The St Louis offense by the end of this season had completely collapsed, while Saunders only ever turned into an offensive genious in KC under Vermeil.

Remember his offense when he was HC at SD? No, me neither.

Also if he was such a guru why did he not have more of an impact when he was receivers coach in KC during the Martyball days?