Cardinals ***Official 2014 STL Cardinals thread part II*** - Page 2

**BigRedChief** · 06:41 PM

Original thread was getting to large for the board

2011 WS Championship
2012 one win from another WS
2013 two wins from another WS title
2014 Central Division title and NLCS series win (so far)

This is a franchise that has made the postseason 10 times in the last 14 seasons.

Only 1 losing season since 2000.

Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.

Our new Manager has more post season experience than any other manager in baseball, except the Giants manager.

Made the NLCS 8 times

Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.

60 post season wins since 2004. 20+ wins more than any other team.

**BigRedChief** · 07-31-2014, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

The old one can serve as a Viking funeral for Torty Craig. Burn it and mourn from a distance.

Thats a varsity post. I'm going to have to talk to Rainman about a promotion.

Marcellus · 07-31-2014, 02:04 PM

OT with a 2 run jack.

Marcellus · 07-31-2014, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Jesus Christ, that's a ****ing hijacking. The Rays let him go for nothing. Franklin has looked like shit his entire big league career.

There has to be more to this.

**BigRedChief** · 07-31-2014, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

OT with a 2 run jack.

Craig who?

**BigRedChief** · 07-31-2014, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Jesus Christ, that's a ****ing hijacking. The Rays let him go for nothing. Franklin has looked like shit his entire big league career.

We could have easily done better than Nick Franklin and still not mortgaged the future.

Swanman · 07-31-2014, 02:14 PM

Oscar hits a two-run jack and hunk of shit Shelby Miller gives up two solo jacks in the bottom of the inning. Top of the rotation stuff my ass.

Marcellus · 07-31-2014, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swanman

Oscar hits a two-run jack and hunk of shit Shelby Miller gives up two solo jacks in the bottom of the inning. Top of the rotation stuff my ass.

He is a head case normally and I read today that he and Joe Kelley were best men in each others weddings so I am surprised he was even able to will himself to pitch today.

**BigRedChief** · 07-31-2014, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

He is a head case normally and I read today that he and Joe Kelley were best men in each others weddings so I am surprised he was even able to will himself to pitch today.

Wifes are best friends too. Saw a piece on Fox sports Midwest about how close they are.

The clubhouse is just going to have to move on. They have done nothing to warrant a don't touch anyone, we are rolling along great approach.

Swanman · 07-31-2014, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Wifes are best friends too. Saw a piece on Fox sports Midwest about how close they are.

The clubhouse is just going to have to move on. They have done nothing to warrant a don't touch anyone, we are rolling along great approach.

Be professionals and deal with it. It's a business.

If you don't want your best buds to be traded, then everyone needs to perform.

**BigRedChief** · 07-31-2014, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swanman

Be professionals and deal with it. It's a business.

If you don't want your best buds to be traded, then everyone needs to perform.

Wonder how AJ and Lackey got along in Boston?

Marco Polo · 07-31-2014, 03:23 PM

Keith Law's reaction of the trade:

With Michael Wacha potentially out for the season, the Cardinals needed a better starter than Justin Masterson to shore up their rotation. John Lackey fits the bill, especially because they didn't have to dip into their farm system to acquire him. To get Lackey, the Cardinals only had to trade two surplus assets.

After beginning his Boston career in miserable fashion, Lackey has been solid the past two seasons for the Sox. He'd be a valuable addition no matter what. But his value is significantly higher thanks to a clause in his incentive-laden contract that gave the Red Sox an extra year on the cheap if he missed more than a year with an elbow injury. As such, the big righty is due to make just $500,000 next season. He'll provide the Cardinals with a useful arm for an incredibly favorable price.

When healthy, Lackey is a consistent 3-plus WAR starter. He's not what he was in his mid-20s in Anaheim but is still good for 180 better-than-solid innings a year.

He's actually on pace to toss 200 frames this season. If he can do that again next year, he'll be among the best values in baseball. Slide him in with Adam Wainwright, Lance Lynn, Shelby Miller and Wacha, and the Cardinals have an extremely strong rotation for 2015.

The Cardinals also get high-A lefty Corey Littrell, who offers a fringe-average fastball with a plus change and might develop into a fifth starter-type.

Trading Craig also opens up playing time for top prospect Oscar Taveras, a high-impact left-handed hitter who needs every-day at-bats to continue his development. He has been one of my top five prospects the past two offseasons, as he brings huge raw power and plate coverage that's reminiscent of a young Vladimir Guerrero. Clearing up playing time for him provides huge ancillary value in this deal.

In exchange for the year-plus of Lackey's services, the Red Sox continue the trend they started in the Lester deal, adding two major league players who might help them compete in 2015. Joe Kelly was in St. Louis' rotation but may profile better as a reliever; he's a good ground-ball guy, but has very little deception in his delivery thanks to a long arm action. Though his delivery is shorter than it was in college, he still gives up a lot of hard contact, often in the form of line drives and home runs. He's a real player development success story, a third-rounder who improved dramatically after draft day, but the Red Sox probably will need someone better for the back of their rotation.

Allen Craig's 2013 season may have set unreasonable expectations, but it's hard to fathom he's going to remain as bad as he has been in 2014, especially with his .122/.204/.204 July dragging him down even further. He's a polished hitter with a career .330 BABIP. I'd bet on at least a .280/.330/.460 bounce-back year next season if he's healthy.

But it's unclear where he fits for the Sox. His best position is first base, which is occupied by Mike Napoli until 2016. Craig would be a liability in either outfield corner -- right field because of its size and dimensions, and left because of the wall.

Craig is due only $25.5 million over the next three years. So even if he gets back to only a 2-WAR level, he'll be a good value. If he's still limited by the Lisfranc fracture he suffered in his foot last year, perhaps another offseason of rest will help restore his old production.

Was Lackey worth more than this, given his salary for next year? Assuming he's true to his word and won't hold out or demand an extension, I think he was, yes. He's worth $15-20 million for a full season on the open market. His thrifty contract makes him incredibly valuable for one year, perhaps even valuable enough that his team deserved a higher-impact player than either Craig or Kelly.

**BigRedChief** · 07-31-2014, 03:35 PM

Bob nightengale from USA Today is reporting that the Cardinals were unhappy with Craig due to his not wanting to change anything in his swing or approach at the plate during his slump. Absolutely refused to change or try anything different.

Marcellus · 07-31-2014, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Bob nightengale from USA Today is reporting that the Cardinals were unhappy with Craig due to his not wanting to change anything in his swing or approach at the plate during his slump. Absolutely refused to change or try anything different.

Yet Matheny refused to put him on the bench.

**BigRedChief** · 07-31-2014, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Yet Matheny refused to put him on the bench.

I have no doubt someone told him that in the Cardinals organization. But,This reminds of post nfl draft bs put out by the front office. Trying to justify their decisions.

Marcellus · 07-31-2014, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I have no doubt someone told him that in the Cardinals organization. But,This reminds of post nfl draft bs put out by the front office. Trying to justify their decisions.

Good point.

07-31-2014, 01:23 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3149627 VARSITY	*Official 2014 STL Cardinals thread part II* Original thread was getting to large for the board 2011 WS Championship 2012 one win from another WS 2013 two wins from another WS title 2014 Central Division title and NLCS series win (so far) This is a franchise that has made the postseason 10 times in the last 14 seasons. Only 1 losing season since 2000. Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005. Our new Manager has more post season experience than any other manager in baseball, except the Giants manager. Made the NLCS 8 times Three million attendance? Take it to the bank. 60 post season wins since 2004. 20+ wins more than any other team. Last edited by BigRedChief; 10-07-2014 at 06:41 PM..
Posts: 79,009

07-31-2014, 02:04 PM	#17
Marcellus Diablo Negro Join Date: Sep 2003 Casino cash: $3092662	OT with a 2 run jack.
Posts: 69,210

07-31-2014, 02:14 PM	#21
Swanman It's a league game, Dude Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Itasca, IL Casino cash: $9967354	Oscar hits a two-run jack and hunk of shit Shelby Miller gives up two solo jacks in the bottom of the inning. Top of the rotation stuff my ass.
Posts: 4,719

07-31-2014, 03:23 PM	#26
Marco Polo Veteran Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 41°59.4′N 87°39.6'W Casino cash: $5808908	Keith Law's reaction of the trade: With Michael Wacha potentially out for the season, the Cardinals needed a better starter than Justin Masterson to shore up their rotation. John Lackey fits the bill, especially because they didn't have to dip into their farm system to acquire him. To get Lackey, the Cardinals only had to trade two surplus assets. After beginning his Boston career in miserable fashion, Lackey has been solid the past two seasons for the Sox. He'd be a valuable addition no matter what. But his value is significantly higher thanks to a clause in his incentive-laden contract that gave the Red Sox an extra year on the cheap if he missed more than a year with an elbow injury. As such, the big righty is due to make just $500,000 next season. He'll provide the Cardinals with a useful arm for an incredibly favorable price. When healthy, Lackey is a consistent 3-plus WAR starter. He's not what he was in his mid-20s in Anaheim but is still good for 180 better-than-solid innings a year. He's actually on pace to toss 200 frames this season. If he can do that again next year, he'll be among the best values in baseball. Slide him in with Adam Wainwright, Lance Lynn, Shelby Miller and Wacha, and the Cardinals have an extremely strong rotation for 2015. The Cardinals also get high-A lefty Corey Littrell, who offers a fringe-average fastball with a plus change and might develop into a fifth starter-type. Trading Craig also opens up playing time for top prospect Oscar Taveras, a high-impact left-handed hitter who needs every-day at-bats to continue his development. He has been one of my top five prospects the past two offseasons, as he brings huge raw power and plate coverage that's reminiscent of a young Vladimir Guerrero. Clearing up playing time for him provides huge ancillary value in this deal. In exchange for the year-plus of Lackey's services, the Red Sox continue the trend they started in the Lester deal, adding two major league players who might help them compete in 2015. Joe Kelly was in St. Louis' rotation but may profile better as a reliever; he's a good ground-ball guy, but has very little deception in his delivery thanks to a long arm action. Though his delivery is shorter than it was in college, he still gives up a lot of hard contact, often in the form of line drives and home runs. He's a real player development success story, a third-rounder who improved dramatically after draft day, but the Red Sox probably will need someone better for the back of their rotation. Allen Craig's 2013 season may have set unreasonable expectations, but it's hard to fathom he's going to remain as bad as he has been in 2014, especially with his .122/.204/.204 July dragging him down even further. He's a polished hitter with a career .330 BABIP. I'd bet on at least a .280/.330/.460 bounce-back year next season if he's healthy. But it's unclear where he fits for the Sox. His best position is first base, which is occupied by Mike Napoli until 2016. Craig would be a liability in either outfield corner -- right field because of its size and dimensions, and left because of the wall. Craig is due only $25.5 million over the next three years. So even if he gets back to only a 2-WAR level, he'll be a good value. If he's still limited by the Lisfranc fracture he suffered in his foot last year, perhaps another offseason of rest will help restore his old production. Was Lackey worth more than this, given his salary for next year? Assuming he's true to his word and won't hold out or demand an extension, I think he was, yes. He's worth $15-20 million for a full season on the open market. His thrifty contract makes him incredibly valuable for one year, perhaps even valuable enough that his team deserved a higher-impact player than either Craig or Kelly.
Posts: 2,506

07-31-2014, 03:35 PM	#27
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3149627 VARSITY	Bob nightengale from USA Today is reporting that the Cardinals were unhappy with Craig due to his not wanting to change anything in his swing or approach at the plate during his slump. Absolutely refused to change or try anything different. __________________ Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. -YODA
Posts: 79,009