Official 2017 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

My as well get it started. Here's my "Matheny" lineup.....

Fowler CF
Diaz SS
Carpenter 1B
Piscotty RF
Grichuk LF
Molina C
Peralta 3B
Wong 2B
Pitcher

My "Matheny" Starting rotation

Martinez
Reyes
Wainwright
Lynn
Leake

[jd1020]

Machado is gonna look so good in the middle of that Yankees lineup with Judge, Stanton, and Sanchez.

They arent even waiting to create an opening at 3rd base. They just shipped out Headley.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Machado is gonna look so good in the middle of that Yankees lineup with Judge, Stanton, and Sanchez.

They arent even waiting to create an opening at 3rd base. They just shipped out Headley.

I can't see any way on God's green earth that Peter Angelos trades the best player his team has had since Ripken (and dirty little secret - Ripken was little more than a better than average player for a massive chunk of his career) to the goddamn Yankees.

Orioles fans would riot. And Baltimore doesn't need much of an excuse to start setting businesses on fire so I suspect it would get ugly...

[jd1020]

I'm talking 2019. There's no chance the Orioles trade him to the Yankees.

[BigRedChief]

Sources: Cardinals are among the teams in on Wade Davis. They’re prioritizing late-inning help to complement Luke Gregerson signing. Rockies are in on Davis as well as they hunt for a closer.

— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) December 12, 2017

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Sources: Cardinals are among the teams in on Wade Davis. They’re prioritizing late-inning help to complement Luke Gregerson signing. Rockies are in on Davis as well as they hunt for a closer.

— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) December 12, 2017

[DJ's left nut]

I don't buy it.

The Cardinals got a firsthand view of Davis's decline. They know that Wade is running on fumes and I'd imagine they're just sniffing around to price enforce. If they can get him for something like 3/$45 they'd probably go ahead and risk it but I'd imagine he's going to get some damn team to give him something crazy like 5/$75.

Because baseball is full of idiots.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I don't buy it.

The Cardinals got a firsthand view of Davis's decline. They know that Wade is running on fumes and I'd imagine they're just sniffing around to price enforce. If they can get him for something like 3/$45 they'd probably go ahead and risk it but I'd imagine he's going to get some damn team to give him something crazy like 5/$75.

Because baseball is full of idiots.

You said a month ago that they would drop sizable money on Davis precisely because Mozeliak is so misguided, right?

[ChiefsCountry]

Davis would be better than Holland if you are buying one of them.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

You said a month ago that they would drop sizable money on Davis precisely because Mozeliak is so misguided, right?

Maybe. I may have been in a shitty mood and decided at the time that Mozeliak is really stupid. Hell, I may have said it 2 weeks ago.

I just refuse to fully accept it.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Davis would be better than Holland if you are buying one of them.

But alternatively, isn't it possible that Holland's had the surgery that Davis will inevitably need in the next 18 months?

I agree that Davis, when he's on the bump, is the better choice. I also think there's a better chance that Davis goes under the knife in the near future than Holland.

Holland's more likely to experience general age based decline, IMO. But Davis has more catastrophic injury concern.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I don't buy it.

The Cardinals got a firsthand view of Davis's decline. They know that Wade is running on fumes and I'd imagine they're just sniffing around to price enforce. If they can get him for something like 3/$45 they'd probably go ahead and risk it but I'd imagine he's going to get some damn team to give him something crazy like 5/$75.

Because baseball is full of idiots.

ive never noticed BS info in Passan, Rosenthal and Heyman's posts. Maybe I'm only looking at trade deadlines? Never viewed them as having trust on the level of bloggers. Should I?

Now their info might be legitimately from a clubs FO but it's info to throw off other GM's kind of like around the NFL draft. You can't believe anything they say publicly during that time.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

ive never noticed BS info in Passan, Rosenthal and Heyman's posts. Maybe I'm only looking at trade deadlines? Never viewed them as having trust on the level of bloggers. Should I?

Now their info might be legitimately from a clubs FO but it's info to throw off other GM's kind of like around the NFL draft. You can't believe anything they say publicly during that time.

I'm not saying the reporters are making things up; they wouldn't risk their credibility over that kind of crap.

I'm saying it's leaked by agents or smokescreens. The cards could be leaking it to drive down Colome's price. Opposing clubs may be leaking it to drive Colome's price up elsewhere (suggesting an attractive option will be off the FA market).

There are a lot of reasons to lie and not many to tell the truth.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

That's not entirely accurate; did you read/listen to his presser at all?



We were close. Real close. But in the end this is the ultimate culmination of 5 years of failure by John Mozeliak. His inability to strengthen this roster ANYWHERE over the last half decade and his unwillingness to move on from a clearly overmatched manager has cost us a generational talent because he didn't believe in the immediate, short term future of the franchise.

Yes, that's a very clear indictment of this front office. Sure, they tried hard, but they failed because of a hole they dug.

If Joe Maddon is a Cardinal right now, so is Giancarlo Stanton. If they'd have made a move on Andrelton Simmons instead of banking on Jhonny Peralta to bounce back, who knows where we stand. If they wouldn't have pussed out on the Moncada sweepstakes so they could keep their powder dry for an incredibly underwhelming 2016 international haul, maybe they get him moved for Sale and things are entirely different. Maybe if they target Freeman instead of Heyward in the Shelby Miller deal. Maybe if they're more aggressive in 2015 and instead of getting Moss to do nothing in the post-season they get Cespedes and he helps them knock off the Cubs and changes the entire narrative around the NL Central.

John Mozeliak has done a poor job running this team for 4-5 years now and it's biting him. There are 100 different things he could've done over the last several years to put this team in a better situation but by and large he's done precisely dick. And the team is feeling the results of that.

And yes, the Cardinals could ask for a negotiating window with Machado and insist that any trade is contingent on an agreed contract extension. They may well get the window - I don't think they'll get the extension unless it has an immediate opt-out. Probably in 2020 so he can get involved in a more barren FA market and get a contract that takes him deeper into his decline years.

no just read the comments after the presser. I'm giving the FO a pass on failing to land Stanton. I don't think they had a chance.

We are on the same page with Mo. it's not just the trades or FA's aquired, it's the missed oppertunites. Max, Simmons etc. like you mentioned.

I'm convinced now that the overpaying for relievers is based on the market yelling to the Cardinals, you want me to pitch at the mercy of Meathead? Open that checkbook wide. And the best ones go elsewhere. That's not on Mo, that's on Dewitt for keeping Matheny.

I think MAtheny is keeping us from getting the top players now. We have such a great and long history. 11 championships including 2 recent. We've only sucked for a couple of years. We can have a top 10 payroll. 3 million fans in person and a rapid fan base to applaud you for every little thing you do at Bush. You can suck but hustle all the time and you still get the praise.

This is on Dewitt for keeping Meathead.

[O.city]

Is ozuna really worth it?

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by O.city

Is ozuna really worth it?

Depends what the Cardinals give up. They can probably swing a package that doesnt include Reyes or Kelly, depends on what other teams are offering and how high the bidding is going. Then it depends on which Ozuna you get, the middle of the order bat thats going to give you 30+ HR's or the one thats on the verge of being sent to the minors.