Hypothetical: Pioli and Crennel are gone. You get your choice for new Head Coach, and

[Mr. Flopnuts]

he doesn't draft a QB until the mid to late rounds. He's acquired a retread to start off with. Are you satisfied?

[the Talking Can]

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

So hire whoever the **** you want to do whatever the **** you want, just fire Pioli and draft a QB? Bullshit.

i'm trying to be nice...

obviously we all want a great coach and gm to be hired

but the bottom line is simple....you have to draft a QB with the #1 pick

end of story

any other answer is pussy bullshit, a cop out, the same loser nonsense we lived with for decades

the amount of energy chiefs fans spend trying to justify not drafting a QB is frankly amazing...and depressing

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Quarterback is a deal-breaker, in terms of turning things around. If they don't find a franchise player behind center, they're not going to go anywhere, not in today's NFL. And let's be serious here, has any team valued the position less than Kansas City? Aside from Trent Green for a 1st (and people will debate his value; I think he was more than capable of winning a championship), they haven't made any real effort to reliably shore up the position in the last two decades. We have a long string of other teams' backups, journeymen players, and other bargain basement options.

A retread only works if it's someone along the lines of Drew Brees (or again, Green, although people will still debate his value to this day). And, I'm sorry, but that just doesn't happen very often. It's an aberration, not something you can count on, not a reliable way of doing business. The only way you're going to pick up a starter from another team is either a) when he's on the downside of his career (like Manning), or b) when a team has two starting caliber QBs and they can't keep them both (who's had that since SD in '06?). Aside from that, NFL teams simply do not let quality quarterbacks go. And that's why, when you're in a position to do it, you absolutely MUST draft one.

Which is why, if they're sitting there with the 1st pick in april, and they don't draft a quarterback, then I'm just not going to believe there's any conceivable way that this franchise is going to turn itself around.

And as far as the head coach goes, he's far less important in my mind than whoever they get behind center. Which is not to say he's not very important, but this franchise will continue to swirl around the bowl if they keep running out the kind of quarterbacks that are available in free agency or for 2nd round picks.

This year is their opportunity, and they'd better not waste it. You don't get to pick #1 (or #2, if that's where they fall) very often. Assuming they lose out (which they may not; this franchise loves to shoot itself in the foot) they aren't going to have to move to get it done, so there won't be any real excuses like when Ryan or Stafford went a few picks earlier.

See, this is the kind of logic that makes me think the QB is more important than the GM (which is really what this is about), but really it's just mental masturbation. We need both.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Quarterback is a deal-breaker, in terms of turning things around. If they don't find a franchise player behind center, they're not going to go anywhere, not in today's NFL. And let's be serious here, has any team valued the position less than Kansas City? Aside from Trent Green for a 1st (and people will debate his value; I think he was more than capable of winning a championship), they haven't made any real effort to reliably shore up the position in the last two decades. We have a long string of other teams' backups, journeymen players, and other bargain basement options.

A retread only works if it's someone along the lines of Drew Brees (or again, Green, although people will still debate his value to this day). And, I'm sorry, but that just doesn't happen very often. It's an aberration, not something you can count on, not a reliable way of doing business. The only way you're going to pick up a starter from another team is either a) when he's on the downside of his career (like Manning), or b) when a team has two starting caliber QBs and they can't keep them both (who's had that since SD in '06?). Aside from that, NFL teams simply do not let quality quarterbacks go. And that's why, when you're in a position to do it, you absolutely MUST draft one.

Which is why, if they're sitting there with the 1st pick in april, and they don't draft a quarterback, then I'm just not going to believe there's any conceivable way that this franchise is going to turn itself around.

And as far as the head coach goes, he's far less important in my mind than whoever they get behind center. Which is not to say he's not very important, but this franchise will continue to swirl around the bowl if they keep running out the kind of quarterbacks that are available in free agency or for 2nd round picks.

This year is their opportunity, and they'd better not waste it. You don't get to pick #1 (or #2, if that's where they fall) very often. Assuming they lose out (which they may not; this franchise loves to shoot itself in the foot) they aren't going to have to move to get it done, so there won't be any real excuses like when Ryan or Stafford went a few picks earlier.

****. I have to give you rep for this.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

i'm trying to be nice...

obviously we all want a great coach and gm to be hired

but the bottom line is simple....you have to draft a QB with the #1 pick

end of story

any other answer is pussy bullshit, a cop out, the same loser nonsense we lived with for decades

the amount of energy chiefs fans spend trying to justify not drafting a QB is frankly amazing...and depressing

Dude, I'm not trying to justify it at all. Just throwing out some discussion. I've been on the franchise QB or bust train as long as anyone.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

See, this is the kind of logic that makes me think the QB is more important than the GM (which is really what this is about), but really it's just mental masturbation. We need both.

He's more important in the grand scheme of things, but you can't have a great one with a shitty other.


So yeah, you need both.

But if I could have Tom Brady, I'd keep Pioli. But thats the reason we are having this conversation. It's not because I don't think the GM isn't as important as the QB, it's that you have to have a GM that realizes HE isn't the most important thing and he has to GET the most important thing.

[burt]

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

Dude, I'm not trying to justify it at all. Just throwing out some discussion. I've been on the franchise QB or bust train as long as anyone.

Not your fault...he has anger issues!

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by SNR

Farmer and Schott aren't Pioli and Crennel. So that fulfills item #1.

Are they going to draft Geno? If yes, that fulfills item #2.

So I would give that tandem a chance.

So really, the QB is more important than the GM and coach to you. That's fine. That's what I'm wrestling with. See, I think Geno is ****ing wasted on guys like that. He washes out of the league, busts, those guys get fired, and we call for it to happen all over again in 30 years.

And that's really my fear. We don't hire the right guys, we draft a QB, he busts, and we **** it off for 30 more years because we may get another Todd Blackledge.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by O.city

He's more important in the grand scheme of things, but you can't have a great one with a shitty other.


So yeah, you need both.

But if I could have Tom Brady, I'd keep Pioli. But thats the reason we are having this conversation. It's not because I don't think the GM isn't as important as the QB, it's that you have to have a GM that realizes HE isn't the most important thing and he has to GET the most important thing.

Yeah. I have to give rep for this.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

See, this is the kind of logic that makes me think the QB is more important than the GM (which is really what this is about), but really it's just mental masturbation. We need both.

We need both. And in the situation you provide where the GM doesn't think these QBs are good enough, he's still not getting us both. He's doing EXACTLY what Pioli ****ing did. He's punting on the QB issue. He's folding with J Q suited before the flop because he believes the ante is too high.

Don't be like Pioli. Draft the QB or get AIDS

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

See, this is the kind of logic that makes me think the QB is more important than the GM (which is really what this is about), but really it's just mental masturbation. We need both.

I think the QB is potentially more important than the GM. Although on the flip side you need a GM savvy enough to select the right QB.

It's a difficult discussion, because on one hand I think there's actually too much being put on QB shoulders, pro and con - there are 10 other players on the field for the offense at any one time, but on the other, you just can't win without one. Not anymore. Well, I mean, you can technically win, but which position do you want to be in: one of the 5 or 6 teams with an actual franchise-caliber QB, who are always in the playoff picture, regardless of who else is on the field; or, one of the other 26 or 27 teams who bounces around between 6-10 and 10-6, and might have a shot at being the one team without a franchise QB to win a superbowl every 8 or 10 years.

And obviously, there's no guarantee that the player you draft will actually be a franchise quarterback. But I'll tell you this much: I guaran-damn-tee that offensive tackle or defensive end or corner isn't going to be a franchise QB either. Meaning you aren't going to get one if you don't try. And there just isn't a more valuable thing to try and get.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

So really, the QB is more important than the GM and coach to you. That's fine. That's what I'm wrestling with. See, I think Geno is ****ing wasted on guys like that. He washes out of the league, busts, those guys get fired, and we call for it to happen all over again in 30 years.

And that's really my fear. We don't hire the right guys, we draft a QB, he busts, and we **** it off for 30 more years because we may get another Todd Blackledge.

This is where you gotta hope the FO realizes that risk is worth the reward and keeps going after it.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

So really, the QB is more important than the GM and coach to you. That's fine. That's what I'm wrestling with. See, I think Geno is ****ing wasted on guys like that. He washes out of the league, busts, those guys get fired, and we call for it to happen all over again in 30 years.

And that's really my fear. We don't hire the right guys, we draft a QB, he busts, and we **** it off for 30 more years because we may get another Todd Blackledge.

True.

Great GMs and coaches come from ****ed up situations all the time.

Great QBs usually do not.

[wazu]

Straight to my shit list, booing him on opening day.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by SNR

True.

Great GMs and coaches come from ****ed up situations all the time.

Great QBs usually do not.

I'm convinced there have been some great QB's that have busted like a mother****er due to horrendous coaching. Alex Smith, and Brady Quinn are two of those guys.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

I'm convinced there have been some great QB's that have busted like a mother****er due to horrendous coaching. Alex Smith, and Brady Quinn are two of those guys.

I was a big quinn fan back in the day (at least I think i was), but all the questions that were raised about him prior to that draft obviously had some validity.

I always thought David Carr was a guy who got ****ed by circumstance. It's one thing to be Roethlisberger or Rodgers getting sacked 2000 times in your 4th or 5th season; it's another to get sacked 2000 times as a rookie. Then again, people who watched the texans a lot will tell you he straight up sucked. So maybe that was it.

As far as alex smith goes, I don't think I was ever a believer there. He had WCO qb written all over him right from the start.