****Official 2014 STL Cardinals thread ****

[BigRedChief]

2011 WS Championship
2012 one win from another WS
2013 two wins from another WS title
2014?

• This is a franchise that has made the postseason 10 times in the last 14 seasons.
• Reached three World Series in the last decade, and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.
• Our new Manager has more post season experience than any other manager in baseball, except the Giants manager.
• Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.
• 60 post season wins since 2004. 20+ wins more than any other team.
• Only one of the last 14 seasons has been a losing one.

[Marco Polo]

Originally Posted by O.city

It's time for someone to go.
They won't do it, but I'd package Adams (preferably Craig, but no one wants that contract for him) Miller, Jay and whoever else I had to to go get another pitcher. Preferably a starter.

We can't hit at all. I would do some package for someone like Stanton.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

We can't hit at all. I would do some package for someone like Stanton.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=3593
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=3599

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Miller has almost no trade value right now, and Adams isn't going to bring much either.

Honestly, the Cardinals have very little in the way of valuable trade pieces aside from Wacha (who should be untouchable) and Taveras. Piscotty and Ramsey might fetch something, but the shine is coming off the farm system now.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=3593
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=3599

Err..the Cardinals did open up the wallet for Peralta, found a sucker for Freese, and Taveras in center has always been tenuous.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Miller has almost no trade value right now, and Adams isn't going to bring much either.

Honestly, the Cardinals have very little in the way of valuable trade pieces aside from Wacha (who should be untouchable) and Taveras. Piscotty and Ramsey might fetch something, but the shine is coming off the farm system now.

I think Miller's value is probably higher than you might think... If I were looking to acquire him, I'd be pretty excited about the prospect of acquiring a guy who put up a K an inning with solid control as a 22-year-old and who has plus stuff.

Looking at PitchFx, it looks like his velocity is not an issue, but his curve is getting hit much harder (fewer swings and misses). That's a location/command issue, most likely.

His value isn't as high as it might have been in the offseason, but he'd still have good value for a lot of teams.

Adams, I'm less sure about that... would probably need to find an AL team to trade with, in all likelihood. I don't think value will ever be as high as it was last offseason (would have been a good time to trade him, honestly).

[O.city]

I'd make Grichuk available, I'm not sure he but that he's not a AAAA player anyway with that swing.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Err..the Cardinals did open up the wallet for Peralta, found a sucker for Freese, and Taveras in center has always been tenuous.

But you didn't add the major bat in Stanton to all of that either. Adams and lot of those guys were ripe to trade last November.

[Swanman]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I think Miller's value is probably higher than you might think... If I were looking to acquire him, I'd be pretty excited about the prospect of acquiring a guy who put up a K an inning with solid control as a 22-year-old and who has plus stuff.

Looking at PitchFx, it looks like his velocity is not an issue, but his curve is getting hit much harder (fewer swings and misses). That's a location/command issue, most likely.

His value isn't as high as it might have been in the offseason, but he'd still have good value for a lot of teams.

Adams, I'm less sure about that... would probably need to find an AL team to trade with, in all likelihood. I don't think value will ever be as high as it was last offseason (would have been a good time to trade him, honestly).

Miller's issue isn't his stuff or anything physical. It's between his ears. For a few starts this year, he became a one-pitch guy and wouldn't get away from his fastball to the point that he had to get his ass chewed by Yadi, Matheny and Lilliquiest in one single start because he kept shaking off Yadi (a terrible idea).

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Swanman

Miller's issue isn't his stuff or anything physical. It's between his ears. For a few starts this year, he became a one-pitch guy and wouldn't get away from his fastball to the point that he had to get his ass chewed by Yadi, Matheny and Lilliquiest in one single start because he kept shaking off Yadi (a terrible idea).

Yeah. That's not going to degrade his value as much as a degradation of his stuff would.

Most teams would look at the physical ability and the results last year and think they can still get good production out of him.

Similar to Colby Rasmus... I know Cards fans are probably pretty happy with that trade, since the return helped you win the title. But that was a case of a guy having greater value than most Cardinals fans (And maybe even people within the organization) realized.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

We were all aware of Rasmus' value, which is why people hated that trade to a man when it occurred. What was especially damaging in that case is that LaRussa went out of his way to destry Rasmus' trade value.

Dickhead, immature or not, that was a franchise-torpedoing move. We were just lucky enough to fall into Dotel, who was the real gem of that trade. Rzepczynski was helpful against Howard's corpse in the LDS, and Jackson ate some innings, but I don't know if he ever made it out of the fifth in any playoff start.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

We were all aware of Rasmus' value, which is why people hated that trade to a man when it occurred. What was especially damaging in that case is that LaRussa went out of his way to destry Rasmus' trade value.

Dickhead, immature or not, that was a franchise-torpedoing move. We were just lucky enough to fall into Dotel, who was the real gem of that trade. Rzepczynski was helpful against Howard's corpse in the LDS, and Jackson ate some innings, but I don't know if he ever made it out of the fifth in any playoff start.

I had forgotten this board's reaction to the trade, but it doesn't surprise me to be reminded it was negative. You guys are a smart and non-homertastic bunch.

On other message boards I frequent, Cards fans LOVED the deal then and still love it now. That was bleeding into my post...

Hopefully, if the Cardinals DO trade Miller, they're smart enough to not let team personnel continually bash him in the media, destroying his trade value.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

But you didn't add the major bat in Stanton to all of that either. Adams and lot of those guys were ripe to trade last November.

I've always been more critical of Adams because of his platoon splits, but he has mashed the ball at every level. A lefty first baseman that plays Gold Glove caliber D and hit almost 20 homers in half a season of ABs isn't a commodity you want to part with easily. Even this year he was on a 4.2 WAR pace with almost no power production

Besides, Stanton was never the logical target because of Taveras. The target was Tulowitzki, as he shored up the position of biggest weakness while also giving you a middle of the order bat.

Peralta is also playing at a 4 WAR pace; it just so happens that Tulowitzki is having a career year and a season for the ages to this point.

That said, I would discount the Cardinal hitters' offensive metrics to this point for the reason that they are wholly absent of power, and regardless of how many runs a bunch of slap singles may create in a vacuum, you cannot build a productive offense on top of them, because it requires far too many things to happen consecutively.

[Mi_chief_fan]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I had forgotten this board's reaction to the trade, but it doesn't surprise me to be reminded it was negative. You guys are a smart and non-homertastic bunch.

On other message boards I frequent, Cards fans LOVED the deal then and still love it now. That was bleeding into my post...

Hopefully, if the Cardinals DO trade Miller, they're smart enough to not let team personnel continually bash him in the media, destroying his trade value.

That trade, even though Cards fans hated it, saved the locker room. Players & coaches were sick of Colby and his nuclklehead dad. The move that I believe actually helped on the field most was picking up Furcal for a AAAA player. Cards have yet to replace him, although I haven't given up on Peralta. Yet.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

This team should just forfeit every game against a LHP just to save wear and tear on the pitching staff.

Runner on second and they can't hit the ball out of the ****ing infield. Shit, they can't even hit a groundball hard.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Miller has almost no trade value right now, and Adams isn't going to bring much either.

Miller has good value. Just because he is in a rough patch now doesn't mean GM's see him as having no value. Adams not having any power this year, I'll agree that his trade value is down.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Honestly, the Cardinals have very little in the way of valuable trade pieces aside from Wacha (who should be untouchable) and Taveras.

All the national and local STL writers disagree with your assessment.