Game of Thrones *Spoiler* Thread

[keg in kc]

There's been some recent confusion with the old spoiler thread, so I'm kicking off a new one for tonight's premiere. This is going to be the one for folks who've read all the books. So anything anybody might want to talk about is in bounds. Suffice to say, if you haven't read the books, you'll probably want to stay out of here until you do...

I'll bump the old spoiler-free thread shortly in case anybody's interested. For future reference the link to that one is here

[Swanman]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

She and Robb were killed by the exact person she convinced Robb to trust.

Robb basically brought that on himself by disrespecting the Freys when he married Jeyne Westerling. That was Robb being "honorable", which is really more of a Ned thing.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

She and Robb were killed by the exact person she convinced Robb to trust.

Seriously? Is that the best you got? That's flat terrible, and I suspect you know it.

Beric came back each time as what, 95% his old self? It seems presumptuous to think that would not hold true with Catelyn. The main difference is her inability to talk, and that is a result of her injury, not of her resurrection.

You find her conduct/personality to be consistent with what she was like when she was alive? I pretty much don't. Her treatment of Brienne, especially, seemed very unCatlike.

Yes, I hate Robert the most. Joff, Gregor, Qyburn, etc are certainly bad guys, but Robert was the most powerful man in the world, but only did as he liked, no matter the consequences for his family or those he was over. At least Cersei and Tywin cared for their family, Robert literally only loved himself and could not suffer the slightest inconvenience to benefit anyone else. Yet, he's a good guy.

Though I think he's generally characterized as a good guy, it's more that he's not an evil/bad guy, rather than being actually "good". His redeeming features are relatively few and far between.

All that said, I've come to the conclusion that you're either completely whacky in general, or at least have a very, very odd view of these characters. Think about it, you're sitting here defending Cercei and demonizing Cat. Strange....at best.

Agree to disagree I guess.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by Swanman

Robb basically brought that on himself by disrespecting the Freys when he married Jeyne Westerling. That was Robb being "honorable", which is really more of a Ned thing.

That made they Freys mad, which did give Bolton an opportunity to betray them. However, Bolton would have found an opportunity to betray them sooner or later for his own benefit. Robb's wedding only sped it up.

[keg in kc]

You'd have to be pretty deranged to deify Cersei and demonize Catelyn.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Seriously? Is that the best you got? That's flat terrible, and I suspect you know it.




You find her conduct/personality to be consistent with what she was like when she was alive? I pretty much don't. Her treatment of Brienne, especially, seemed very unCatlike.




Though I think he's generally characterized as a good guy, it's more that he's not an evil/bad guy, rather than being actually "good". His redeeming features are relatively few and far between.

All that said, I've come to the conclusion that you're either completely whacky in general, or at least have a very, very odd view of these characters. Think about it, you're sitting here defending Cercei and demonizing Cat. Strange....at best.

Agree to disagree I guess.

No, it's not terrible. She convinced her son and king to give command of his army to the head of the house which was known for flaying Stark kings.

After how she treated those outside her own circle when she was alive (Petyr Baelish, Jon, Tyrion) I don't find it inconsistent for her to act the way she does after a traumatic event. She does whatever she feels is necessary to protect her children, and at this point that means ridding the world of as many Freys and Lannisters as she can. Remember, she only hung Brienne because Brienne refused to kill THE Lannister.

Hey, know who else does whatever she feels is necessary to protect her children?

I'm not trying to defend Cersei and demonize Catelyn, I just feel they're pretty much the same. If Catelyn had access to her own Qyburn, and felt that giving him people she didn't care about to experiment with would help protect her kids, do you think she would shy away from it?

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

I just feel they're pretty much the same. If Catelyn had access to her own Qyburn, and felt that giving him people she didn't care about to experiment with would help protect her kids, do you think she would shy away from it?

Uh. Yeah. She's nothing like Cersei.

Unless you're arguing that after having what she thinks is her last son executed in front of her at his wedding feast, then having her own throat cut, then laying dead in a river for three days, then getting resurrected as an undead creature could perhaps twist her into something some small degree as vile as Cersei, then yes, I might agree.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Uh. Yeah. She's nothing like Cersei.

Unless you're arguing that after having what she thinks is her last son executed in front of her at his wedding feast, then having her own throat cut, then laying dead in a river for three days, then getting resurrected as an undead creature could perhaps twist her into something some small degree as vile as Cersei, then yes, I might agree.

Do you find Littlefinger as vile as Cersei?

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

I'm not trying to defend Cersei and demonize Catelyn, I just feel they're pretty much the same. If Catelyn had access to her own Qyburn, and felt that giving him people she didn't care about to experiment with would help protect her kids, do you think she would shy away from it?

errr...yes, actually.

Pointless debate. I don't think 1 in 100 fans would agree with you on this to be honest.

[keg in kc]

Yes. Littlefinger's another character with zero redeeming qualities.

I feel that way about most of the small council.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

errr...yes, actually.

Pointless debate. I don't think 1 in 100 fans would agree with you on this to be honest.

You honestly think that Catelyn Stark would not do something that would protect her children because it was distasteful?

Ok then.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Yes. Littlefinger's another character with zero redeeming qualities.

I feel that way about most of the small council.

Ok, at least you're consistent.

What are the redeeming qualities of Catelyn?

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

You honestly think that Catelyn Stark would not do something that would protect her children because it was distasteful

Your misperception is that Cersei's actions actually have anything to do with a genuine motherly love for her children. Everything she does comes from selfish motives.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Ok, at least you're consistent.

What are the redeeming qualities of Catelyn?

Did you read A Game of Thrones? Because I find it hard to believe that anyone who had would ask that question. Her entire relationship with Ned is the easy answer there.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Did you read A Game of Thrones? Because I find it hard to believe that anyone who had would ask that question. Her entire relationship with Ned is the easy answer there.

She was lucky enough to be wed to a kind, loving man, who she admits she did not love at first.

Cersei tried to make her marriage work as well. She was not as lucky in who she was married to.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Your misperception is that Cersei's actions actually have anything to do with a genuine motherly love for her children. Everything she does comes from selfish motives.

I think you're reading your own perception into the story, likely from the position that Joffrey is unlovable. Read Cersei's interactions with Tommen and Myrcella and her love is much more understandable.

Realistically, her ability to love a monster like Joffrey is testament to her motherhood, IMO.