***OFFICIAL USMNT SOCCER THREAD***

[Dante84]

These dudes have just been smashing countries lately, and they are really, really fun to watch. Even for soccer.

Follow the games in this thread, post goals, etc...

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

The men were in the championship game, but I get your point.

To be clear, having grown up in Italy, I can assure you that people in countries like Intaly, Germany, Mexico, etc, etc, etc, grow up playing nothing but this game pretty-much every waking moment they aren't in school. While that doesn't automatically make them better, it doesn't hurt.

And I'll add that it's a different culture, where we have our kids playing football, baseball, hockey, soccer, basketball, lacrosse, SCUBA diving, taking flight lessons, scouts, and playing musical instruments (so they can figure out the things they love) many of these places don't distract their larger young population with such diversity in activities. That's not an excuse, it's just a reality for parents/families trying to break the "one sport wonder" kid.

I mean, imagine Lebron James playing soccer. And I bet he could. He'd be unstoppable. Still I think we have enough athletes that we should be much better. A few potential issues.... SUM has been accused of favoring developmental players who can afford developmental camps. Basically camps for rich people in suburban neighborhoods. A lot of the best international soccer talent comes from people with nothing to lose so they practice nonstop. And it's so easy for them to do because unlike hockey where you need to buy hundreds of dollars for equipment, all you need for soccer is sneakers and a ball. Soccer can't just be a game for rich kids. The best talent should be developed regardless of ability to pay. The other fixable thing is that we shouldn't wait til the last minute to send someone to Europe. Our best talent at a young age should develop in Europe. Period.

Our usmnt will probably always struggle to recruit the best American athletes because they play different sports. But theres no excuse for us to be this bad.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by loochy

*of the CONCACAF regional tournament, which is filled with juggernauts such as Trinidad & Tobago, Curcao, Martinique, and Bermuda.

True, but a championship nonetheless.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I mean, imagine Lebron James playing soccer. And I bet he could. He'd be unstoppable. Still I think we have enough athletes that we should be much better. A few potential issues.... SUM has been accused of favoring developmental players who can afford developmental camps. Basically camps for rich people in suburban neighborhoods. A lot of the best international soccer talent comes from people with nothing to lose so they practice nonstop. And it's so easy for them to do because unlike hockey where you need to buy hundreds of dollars for equipment, all you need for soccer is sneakers and a ball. Soccer can't just be a game for rich kids. The best talent should be developed regardless of ability to pay. The other fixable thing is that we shouldn't wait til the last minute to send someone to Europe. Our best talent at a young age should develop in Europe. Period.

Our usmnt will probably always struggle to recruit the best American athletes because they play different sports. But theres no excuse for us to be this bad.

I can't disagree. And yes, sports that need little investment are havens for the financially challenged who see it as a potential ticket out of poverty. It's hardly unique to soccer.

And yes, I PAY OUT THE ASS for ice time...

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

I can't disagree. And yes, sports that need little investment are havens for the financially challenged who see it as a potential ticket out of poverty. It's hardly unique to soccer.

And yes, I PAY OUT THE ASS for ice time...

What's unique about soccer is that unlike basketball, the developmental leagues all favor the suburbs. To play in the best leagues where you'll grow and get noticed, you have to pay to play. Basketball it's easy to get noticed just by being good at it. Which is where sending them to Europe would help. If we can't afford to give all our best talent the best coaching, then let Europe pay for them. Let them play in Europe, just make sure they represent the US in the world cup.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I mean, imagine Lebron James playing soccer. And I bet he could. He'd be unstoppable. Still I think we have enough athletes that we should be much better. A few potential issues.... SUM has been accused of favoring developmental players who can afford developmental camps. Basically camps for rich people in suburban neighborhoods. A lot of the best international soccer talent comes from people with nothing to lose so they practice nonstop. And it's so easy for them to do because unlike hockey where you need to buy hundreds of dollars for equipment, all you need for soccer is sneakers and a ball. Soccer can't just be a game for rich kids. The best talent should be developed regardless of ability to pay. The other fixable thing is that we shouldn't wait til the last minute to send someone to Europe. Our best talent at a young age should develop in Europe. Period.

Our usmnt will probably always struggle to recruit the best American athletes because they play different sports. But theres no excuse for us to be this bad.

I disagree slightly, in terms of pure athletic 'advantage' counting as much in soccer as it does in other sports.

The fascination of soccer, and ironically what makes it so boring to the lay viewer, is the way the rules and makeup of the game neturalizes so many singular athletic traits. Many of the best soccer players ever in history have been of slight build and medium to slightly below average height.

Offsides neutralizes a lot of the advantages of speed.
The difficulty of operating without your hands neutralizes a lot of size and span differences, as the longer your limbs the less intricate your maneuverability.

It's a unique mixture of the skill of things like golf and darts and bowling, with the athleticism/stamina of rugby and football, with the teamwork/strategy of basketball and hockey.

Lebron might be a potent defender, perhaps a great goalie, but it would be tough to picture him having the fine motor control in space like a Messi or Pele to be a scoring threat that rises above the rest.

[NJChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

Those missed opportunities are going to haunt them later.

Yep. You can't miss those chances and expect to beat a good team.

That being said, if we had buried those chances we have a real chance to win the game. I agree with all the issues people have brought up, but we could have easily been up 2-0 and who knows what the tune of US soccer is if we win that game 2-1 or something. Obviously the 2nd half showed we still have work to do, as we always seem to.

For the game itself, it really did seem like we were doing well playing over the top to relieve pressure in the first half. Even when we did it in the second half it seemed to work alright but for some reason we stopped doing it as much. I know soccer but am by no means an expert, so did anyone here see Mexico adjust so that we couldn't really play as many long-balls?

I also agree that last night really was perhaps a sign of Bradley needing to be replaced. A number of bad turnovers and losing a lot of 50/50 balls.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I disagree slightly, in terms of pure athletic 'advantage' counting as much in soccer as it does in other sports.

The fascination of soccer, and ironically what makes it so boring to the lay viewer, is the way the rules and makeup of the game neturalizes so many singular athletic traits. Many of the best soccer players ever in history have been of slight build and medium to slightly below average height.

Offsides neutralizes a lot of the advantages of speed.
The difficulty of operating without your hands neutralizes a lot of size and span differences, as the longer your limbs the less intricate your maneuverability.

It's a unique mixture of the skill of things like golf and darts and bowling, with the athleticism/stamina of rugby and football, with the teamwork/strategy of basketball and hockey.

Lebron might be a potent defender, perhaps a great goalie, but it would be tough to picture him having the fine motor control in space like a Messi or Pele to be a scoring threat that rises above the rest.

Maybe not the best example... Good point. But not hard to imagine many guards and defensive backs and receivers who would have been elite soccer players if they devoted the majority of their time to the game. Our best athletes end up in other sports a lot of the time.

[loochy]

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan

I also agree that last night really was perhaps a sign of Bradley needing to be replaced. A number of bad turnovers and losing a lot of 50/50 balls.

And so many of his completed passes were back passes. How many times did you see him turn, pivot, and hit a probing forward pass? He just doesn't have "it" anymore.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by loochy

And so many of his completed passes were back passes. How many times did you see him turn, pivot, and hit a probing forward pass? He just doesn't have "it" anymore.

He had a couple world-class crosses to the right wing early in the game, but he was sloppy after about 30 minutes.

[loochy]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Maybe not the best example... Good point. But not hard to imagine many guards and defensive backs and receivers who would have been elite soccer players if they devoted the majority of their time to the game. Our best athletes end up in other sports a lot of the time.

But athleticism isn't our problem. In general, the US is more fit and has a higher work rate than their opponents. They just aren't smart about how they use it.

[loochy]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

He had a couple world-class crosses to the right wing early in the game, but he was sloppy after about 30 minutes.

I did miss the first 30 minutes due to fooling around with getting my son to bed, so that explains why I missed it.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by loochy

But athleticism isn't our problem. In general, the US is more fit and has a higher work rate than their opponents. They just aren't smart about how they use it.

Yup, as I've said we have talent to be good even with elite athletes playing in other sports. It's one of many reasons. But yes, we should still be much better than what we are. To me, development is such a huge piece. If I have a dirk nowitski and want him to be an elite player on the German Olympic team, I'm sending him to the nba... Not to some German B-league.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Maybe not the best example... Good point. But not hard to imagine many guards and defensive backs and receivers who would have been elite soccer players if they devoted the majority of their time to the game. Our best athletes end up in other sports a lot of the time.

In generating offense, of the most prized skill is the ability to economize forward momentum.

Take a look at some of Rose LaVelle's work recently. She is a little dainty thing, but when the ball comes into her 'sphere' she's moving it immediately toward goal, without stutters or phumphering, and gets herself quickly to through balls so she's able to make quick oblique corrections to keep the ball away from defender space.

You don't have to be immense or powerful to be dangerous. You have to have skill to move the ball efficiently and stamina to maintain your skill throughout the game.

Soccer can appear to be a difficult game, but when you can do this is opens into an astoundingly easy game.

ROSE. LAVELLE. ������

A beautiful solo effort doubles the @USWNT's lead in the #FIFAWWC final! pic.twitter.com/ToznvQiuxb

— FOX Soccer (@FOXSoccer) July 7, 2019

[sedated]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I mean, imagine Lebron James playing soccer. And I bet he could. He'd be unstoppable.

This is the stupidest take in the world of soccer, and yet people still repeat it every year.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

In generating offense, of the most prized skill is the ability to economize forward momentum.

Take a look at some of Rose LaVelle's work recently. She is a little dainty thing, but when the ball comes into her 'sphere' she's moving it immediately toward goal, without stutters or phumphering, and gets herself quickly to through balls so she's able to make quick oblique corrections to keep the ball away from defender space.

You don't have to be immense or powerful to be dangerous. You have to have skill to move the ball efficiently and stamina to maintain your skill throughout the game.

Soccer can appear to be a difficult game, but when you can do this is opens into an astoundingly easy game.

ROSE. LAVELLE. ������

A beautiful solo effort doubles the @USWNT's lead in the #FIFAWWC final! pic.twitter.com/ToznvQiuxb

— FOX Soccer (@FOXSoccer) July 7, 2019

We're talking athletes with world elite footwork, agility, and sports IQ. Sure not all elite athletes will become great soccer players. But of a pool of many of the best athletes in a world, not hard to imagine many would come out of soccer development with outstanding instincts and sports IQ coupled with world elite athletic ability. These development things aren't a guarantee you'll be great. They're a pipeline and we unfortunately lose a lot of elite athletes early in the pipeline and always will.

But again, still no excuse for why we're this bad. As you've said we have plenty enough skill that we should be far better.