Hemingway so far

[AustinChief]

So, how does everyone feel about Junior so far this year?

I am disappointed with the amount of targets (9) and he has 1 drop (and it was a bad one) but the rest of his stats are decent. 9.8 yds per reception. 24 yards after catch. And all 4 of his catches have been for 1st downs.

The one thing that has been impressive has been his downfield blocking. Of our WRs he is head and shoulders beyond anyone in this category. I'd actually like to see a stat for yardage on runs/screens/swing passes to his side when he is on the field.

So any thoughts on why he isn't seeing the field more(as a receiving threat and not just a blocker)? I know Htismaqe will say it's because he has trouble learning the offense(any offense) and this may be true. I agree with this to an extent but I expected him to be able to pick it up by now.

[Dinny Bossa Nova]

FWIW, AC, I am a Hemingway fan and hope he turns out to be really good for this team. Young low-rounders should take a while to develop. This ain't the FFL.

Dinny

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

which the correct answer?:

he is what he is

he's awesome but for some reason our team refuses to acknowledge it


i don't have to analyze reality...he's overachieved by even being on an nfl roster this long, and good for him

Again, please point out where ANYONE claims he is awesome. I am however disappointed in his production and would like to know why. It's not because he has bad hands or can't get open. Those idiotic arguments have been proven wrong. And to be clear I don't think there is some conspiracy or the coaches are idiots for not using him or any other nonsense.

So, you won't actually do any WORK(looking at tape) but you still think you have something to add to the conversation by being a complete blowhard and stating your opinion with absolutely nothing to back it up but bluster and a douchebag attitude. Congrats, you are now Hamas Jenkins 2.0

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Why are people still talking about Junior? Definition of "nobody".

Thanks for adding nothing to the discussion. Appreciate it.

Dude you know I love you but your attitude the last few years has just plain sucked.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by thabear04

So he like Jason Dunn.

Well... Jason Dunn was an excellent blocker at a position where blocking was critical. If you are keeping a receiver on the roster only to block, there's a problem. I would bet Hemingway is still on the team because he's excellent at special teams, a solid blocking receiver on a team that doesn't have good receivers. Agree with everyone here he's probably still on this roster because the options below him aren't much better.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Thanks for adiing nothing to the discussion. Appreciate it.

Dude you know I love you but your attitude the last few years has just plain sucked.

The only person in here who has been bitchy is you.

Hemingway is not a terribly good route runner, he doesn't get separation, and he doesn't have breakaway speed. Moreover, there is no evidence to support that he has great hands.

Again, over three years of being in the NFL, he has 17 receptions. Don't you think that a team who was trotting out Frankie Hammond, Donnie Avery, and AJ Jenkins would be looking for improvements out wide? If he could do it, he'd be doing it.

Also, he's done nothing to warrant being a decoy, and there is no tactical advantage to making him a decoy. That's a claim without any evidence. It's not like he's good enough to draw a double team. When is Hemingway ever drawing double coverage?

He's a WR with a solid build. Every other physical characteristic and skill is either mediocre to below par, aside from his blocking, which is the least important skill a WR can possess.

[the Talking Can]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Again, please point out where ANYONE claims he is awesome. I am however disappointed in his production and would like to know why. It's not because he has bad hands or can't get open. Those idiotic arguments have been proven wrong. And to be clear I don't think there is some conspiracy or the coaches are idiots for not using him or any other nonsense.

So, you won't actually do any WORK(looking at tape) but you still think you have something to add to the conversation by being a complete blowhard and stating your opinion with absolutely nothing to back it up but bluster and a douchebag attitude. Congrats, you are now Hamas Jenkins 2.0

you're right, I'm not 'watching tape' about a scrub WR....

no one anywhere gives a shit about him, he's a nobody with no special talent and no production to boot...he has 100 exact replicas of him on rosters around the league and no one gives a shit about them either

you have an emotional connection to him, for some reason i genuinely don't care about

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

The only person in here who has been bitchy is you.

Hemingway is not a terribly good route runner, he doesn't get separation, and he doesn't have breakaway speed. Moreover, there is no evidence to support that he has great hands.

Again, over three years of being in the NFL, he has 17 receptions. Don't you think that a team who was trotting out Frankie Hammond, Donnie Avery, and AJ Jenkins would be looking for improvements out wide? If he could do it, he'd be doing it.

Also, he's done nothing to warrant being a decoy, and there is no tactical advantage to making him a decoy. That's a claim without any evidence. It's not like he's good enough to draw a double team. When is Hemingway ever drawing double coverage?

He's a WR with a solid build. Every other physical characteristic and skill is either mediocre to below par, aside from his blocking, which is the least important skill a WR can possess.

Ok, nice analysis, except it's based on nothing. I have never claimed he was a decoy. Where the hell do you get that nonsense? And I have only analyzed a few quarters but he drew double coverage one time. No one is claiming he gets double covered consistently or even more than the one time I saw. I was frankly surprised by that.

As to his physical attributes... what do you base your opinion on? It's certainly not from his actual combine numbers.

I don't think he has breakaway speed but he is plenty fast and regardless of your opinion, if you actually WATCHED the tape he gets separation consistently.

I have been "bitchy" because people like you continue to douche up the thread with your typical bluster with no substance. You make ridiculous hyperbolic claims and then act like a tool if anyone asks you to back them. There is ZERO value to that type of "discussion" and you know it. Does it make you feel better about yourself? Seriously, any particular reason being a complete asshole to people is your "thing"?

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

you're right, I'm not 'watching tape' about a scrub WR....

no one anywhere gives a shit about him, he's a nobody with no special talent and no production to boot...he has 100 exact replicas of him on rosters around the league and no one gives a shit about them either

you have an emotional connection to him, for some reason i genuinely don't care about

So, I was right. You're Hamas 2.0

Zero substance to add but a whole ton of attitude and unwarranted ego.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by Dinny Blues

Damn, Claynus.

You gonna take that shit, AC?

Dinny

Ha, no one takes anything Clay says seriously. Love the guy but football takes are not his forte.

[-King-]

Can you post gifs or something of those times he was open AC?

Really, do you think it's a coincidence he only has 17 catches in his career? Do you think that Smith just hates him or something and refuses to pass it to him even though he repeatedly gets open supposedly?

[J Diddy]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Ha, no one takes anything Clay says seriously. Love the guy but football takes are not his forte.

Ouch. That's surely going to leave a mark.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by -King-

Can you post gifs or something of those times he was open AC?

Really, do you think it's a coincidence he only has 17 catches in his career? Do you think that Smith just hates him or something and refuses to pass it to him even though he repeatedly gets open supposedly?

I do not think it is coincidence. That is the point of the thread, I have no clue what the problem is and was looking for discussion on the topic.

I doubt Smith "hates" him, if anyone hates him it would be the coaches (I doubt this as well) because he is very rarely asked to actually run routes. The vast majority of his snaps are plays where he is not even a POTENTIAL target. (running plays, screen passes, quick slants, etc).

I posted one gif of him open already. I can post more if you'd like. There aren't many from the plays I have analyzed because, as I said, he is very rarely asked to run a route. Of the plays I looked at all but once he was open when asked to be. The one time was on a drag route where he was screened by the crossing WR from the other side then double covered. That entire play was actually a complete abortion.

[MahiMike]

He's no Allen Hurns.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Ok, nice analysis, except it's based on nothing. I have never claimed he was a decoy. Where the hell do you get that nonsense? And I have only analyzed a few quarters but he drew double coverage one time. No one is claiming he gets double covered consistently or even more than the one time I saw. I was frankly surprised by that.

As to his physical attributes... what do you base your opinion on? It's certainly not from his actual combine numbers.

I don't think he has breakaway speed but he is plenty fast and regardless of your opinion, if you actually WATCHED the tape he gets separation consistently.

I have been "bitchy" because people like you continue to douche up the thread with your typical bluster with no substance. You make ridiculous hyperbolic claims and then act like a tool if anyone asks you to back them. There is ZERO value to that type of "discussion" and you know it. Does it make you feel better about yourself? Seriously, any particular reason being a complete asshole to people is your "thing"?

All I can do is watch the games and look at his measureables to determine his athleticism. Please, key me in on the Rosetta Stone of football analysis so that I might know how to determine a football player isn't anything other than subpar when he doesn't catch passes and averages less than 10 YPC when the occasional nugget is tossed his way.

If you are split wide, you are generally asked to do three things:

1) Get open and catch the ball
2) Act as a decoy to draw coverage away from the intended target
3) Block for a running play

We know that he never does 1), and if, as you said, he never does 2), what the hell is his value to a football team?

Is there some kind of concerted effort not to throw him the ball? Does Smith prefer to throw to Avery, who has no hands, or Bowe, who gets little-to-no separation, out of spite?

Furthermore, please show me where the WCO makes heavy use of a WR who runs short routes and "gets open" but never gets the ball. If he is in fact doing that, and you've done nothing to prove that, what is the functional utility?

I haven't seen anything that warrants your praise of him, aside from the fact that he once wore a helmet of a team you rooted for.

Again, where is the ridiculous hyperbole? Name all of the #4 and #5 receivers that you feel aren't better than Hemingway and offer actual support for them.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

All I can do is watch the games and look at his measureables to determine his athleticism. Please, key me in on the Rosetta Stone of football analysis so that I might know how to determine a football player isn't anything other than subpar when he doesn't catch passes and averages less than 10 YPC when the occasional nugget is tossed his way.

If you are split wide, you are generally asked to do three things:

1) Get open and catch the ball
2) Act as a decoy to draw coverage away from the intended target
3) Block for a running play

We know that he never does 1), and if, as you said, he never does 2), what the hell is his value to a football team?

He rarely(not never) is asked to do #1 based on the snaps I have looked at. I can't read minds so I don't make any claims one way or another in regards to #2. #3 is where he sees most of his snaps. Well, not really but if you expand #3 to include screens, swing passes, quick slants, etc then #3 is where he sees most of his snaps. On the few snaps that are category #1, (from the tape I have looked at : 1st qtr of Tenn and 1st half of Denver) he has gotten open whenever asked to.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Is there some kind of concerted effort not to throw him the ball? Does Smith prefer to throw to Avery, who has no hands, or Bowe, who gets little-to-no separation, out of spite?

Furthermore, please show me where the WCO makes heavy use of a WR who runs short routes and "gets open" but never gets the ball. If he is in fact doing that, and you've done nothing to prove that, what is the functional utility?

I haven't seen anything that warrants your praise of him, aside from the fact that he once wore a helmet of a team you rooted for.

Again, you attempt to misrepresent what I am saying. If you actually watched the tap you'd see that he is rarely asked to run routes. Period. No one is claiming a conspiracy to not throw to him. He gets thrown to (as much as anyone does) on the few occasions he gets to run a route and get open.

Please show where I am praising him? I am stating facts about him and trying to understand what the hell is wrong with him that causes the coaches to use him in this manner.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Again, where is the ridiculous hyperbole? Name all of the #4 and #5 receivers that you feel aren't better than Hemingway and offer actual support for them.

You're scaling back your statement to a much more reasonable one. The ridiculous hyperbole was that there were tons of practice squad guys who would replace him. If so, you may want to let Dorsey know!