Chiefs Not yet late night bullshit: Speed kills.

Direckshun · 03-25-2013, 08:51 PM

I've been scouring the scouting reports, YouTube vids, all that good stuff this scouting season. And I've discovered something about myself: I've started evolving away from the bigger, bruising RBs and the tougher possession WRs, and started favoring more athletic, nimble skill position players.

I don't think I was always this way. Back when this team had Larry Johnson bruising people inside, a punishing offensive line, and two of the better punishing possession receivers in Gonzalez and then Bowe, I was all about the three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust philosophy.

But Jamaal Charles' gamebreaking ability, along with some of his peers like Chris Johnson, Mike Wallace, and Torrey Smith, has started changing my mind.

Keep in mind, I've always thought speed was incredibly important, but now I'm thinking it's speed that truly breaks the back of defenses, not simply out-muscling the other team.

Jamaal Charles is the perfect example of this. Compared to Larry Johnson, Thomas Jones, or Peyton Hillis, his incredible speed (a.) doesn't require the OL to open massive holes for him to make noise, and (b.) it puts tremendous pressure on defenses to make sure they are playing every gap perfectly.

That's why I really do wonder why this team doesn't just draft somebody like Gillislee or Ellington and just go pure speed in the backfield. Charles, Gray, Gillislee with McCluster options.

And I think the team should seriously make an aggressive move and draft Marquise Goodwin, the track star receiver out of Texas.

Most of us on this board have played sports, I played basketball and, more comparably to the receiver/cornerback battles, I played a lot of soccer. And there is nothing more miserable than having to guard somebody who is genuinely much, much faster than you. Playing somebody stronger than you sucks as well, but you can compensate for a lot of that with strategy and technique.

But speed guys? They don't even have to be talented. Remember Jacoby Forb de-pantsing Brandon Flowers a couple years ago? Flowers is by far the superior player, but all those ballskills and that coverage ability doesn't mean shit if they can't ****ing catch you. Now you have to dedicate two players to guarding this guy, simply because he's ****ing fast. And I think that's exactly what Goodwin projects to be.

Makes me wonder why teams don't do that more often. Just go with pure speed packages, like a less braindead version of what the Raiders did in the 90s and early 00s. Pack as much speed on the field as possible, and give your offense the two best tackles you can find to protect your QB, and do more than just take the top off the D, eliminate the top altogether.

What exactly do you lose with going pure speed? You might have trouble pounding the ball in on the 1, but if you have effective receivers on the outside, you don't have to go into your traditional goal line offense, ever. You might have trouble tossing jump balls in the endzone, so just run creative hot routes that allow for smart, quick slants rather than those grotesque corner lobs our QBs have been flailing with for ages.

Just some thoughts on speed, more than anything. I think giving this offense more deep threats (rather than just Avery) and our rungame more homerun hitters can open up opposing defenses.

Demonpenz · 03-25-2013, 08:53 PM

Larry Johnson was plenty fast.

Direckshun · 03-25-2013, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demonpenz

Larry Johnson was plenty fast.

He was Usain Bolt-type runner, in that his top speed was great, but he doesn't just start off at that speed like a lot of the burners I mentioned in the OP.

B14ckmon · 03-25-2013, 08:54 PM

tk13 · 03-25-2013, 08:58 PM

Larry Johnson had great speed. Even when he was a rookie people used to act like he was slow because of the way he ran... but just watch him return kicks. His burst once he hit the hole was fantastic. That's what made him so tough. He was the opposite of Priest. Priest didn't have the top end-speed but his burst from yards 1-10 he was unparalleled.

**Buehler445** · 03-25-2013, 09:07 PM

I've always loved speed. But it has to be a balance. If a CB can knock the WR off his route easily, it is pretty tough to get him the ball anywhere near where he is supposed to be. And if a RB is easy to bring down, it's ballgame whenever they get a mitt on him.

The thing about Charles is he is a football player with track speed. Not a track guy in pads. If you can get a gamer with speed, you do that everyday of the week.

You could take some shots on WR with elite speed and put him opposite Bowe, that would be super sick.

Demonpenz · 03-25-2013, 09:11 PM

Sammie Parker was fast, but sucked.

crispystl · 03-25-2013, 09:12 PM

I think it's part of the evolution of the game thanks to Rodger. Speed is exponentially more lethal than it used to be and power is worthless because.. hey it's a pussy league now.. and now running backs can't lead with the helmet?? Give me a ****ing break!

Deberg_1990 · 03-25-2013, 09:14 PM

Ethan Horton and Paul Palmer were plenty fast

Simply Red · 03-25-2013, 09:25 PM

**BossChief** · 03-25-2013, 09:24 PM

Just think if Larry Johnson had been the feature back the whole year in the season he had 1750 yards. He could have easily passed 2105.

The guy had sick talent but a ten cent brain.

Guy might have been a HOFer if he had his head on straight.

Dante84 · 03-25-2013, 09:26 PM

This is why Oregon was so fun to watch in college. They recruited speed.

Speed kills.

mcaj22 · 03-25-2013, 09:29 PM

there is plenty of things you lose with pure speed players

one is size, two is durability. usually fast players are very light and break easily

see: Johnny Knox, any Raiders player.

all you have to do is press any speed WR and they are jammed off their routes. Which makes a guy like Calvin Johnson that rare of a player, a guy that fast with that size, is very, very rare.

Mike Wallace cant beat the press, Torrey Smith cant beat the press, and they are currently the two best speed WRs in the NFL.

**Reaper16** · 03-25-2013, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcaj22

there is plenty of things you lose with pure speed players

one is size, two is durability. usually fast players are very light and break easily

see: Johnny Knox, any Raiders player.

all you have to do is press any speed WR and they are jammed off their routes. Which makes a guy like Calvin Johnson that rare of a player, a guy that fast with that size, is very, very rare.

Mike Wallace cant beat the press, Torrey Smith cant beat the press, and they are currently the two best speed WRs in the NFL.

That's not fair to Johnny Knox. He didn't break easy. He broke real, real hard.

Simply Red · 03-25-2013, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16

That's not fair to Johnny Knox. He didn't break easy. He broke real, real hard.

JDPrez isn't your weezie?

03-25-2013, 08:51 PM	Topic Starter
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $4203447	Not yet late night bullshit: Speed kills. I've been scouring the scouting reports, YouTube vids, all that good stuff this scouting season. And I've discovered something about myself: I've started evolving away from the bigger, bruising RBs and the tougher possession WRs, and started favoring more athletic, nimble skill position players. I don't think I was always this way. Back when this team had Larry Johnson bruising people inside, a punishing offensive line, and two of the better punishing possession receivers in Gonzalez and then Bowe, I was all about the three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust philosophy. But Jamaal Charles' gamebreaking ability, along with some of his peers like Chris Johnson, Mike Wallace, and Torrey Smith, has started changing my mind. Keep in mind, I've always thought speed was incredibly important, but now I'm thinking it's speed that truly breaks the back of defenses, not simply out-muscling the other team. Jamaal Charles is the perfect example of this. Compared to Larry Johnson, Thomas Jones, or Peyton Hillis, his incredible speed (a.) doesn't require the OL to open massive holes for him to make noise, and (b.) it puts tremendous pressure on defenses to make sure they are playing every gap perfectly. That's why I really do wonder why this team doesn't just draft somebody like Gillislee or Ellington and just go pure speed in the backfield. Charles, Gray, Gillislee with McCluster options. And I think the team should seriously make an aggressive move and draft Marquise Goodwin, the track star receiver out of Texas. Most of us on this board have played sports, I played basketball and, more comparably to the receiver/cornerback battles, I played a lot of soccer. And there is nothing more miserable than having to guard somebody who is genuinely much, much faster than you. Playing somebody stronger than you sucks as well, but you can compensate for a lot of that with strategy and technique. But speed guys? They don't even have to be talented. Remember Jacoby Forb de-pantsing Brandon Flowers a couple years ago? Flowers is by far the superior player, but all those ballskills and that coverage ability doesn't mean shit if they can't **ing catch you. Now you have to dedicate two players to guarding this guy, simply because he's ****ing fast. And I think that's exactly what Goodwin projects to be. Makes me wonder why teams don't do that more often. Just go with pure speed packages, like a less braindead version of what the Raiders did in the 90s and early 00s. Pack as much speed on the field as possible, and give your offense the two best tackles you can find to protect your QB, and do more than just take the top off the D, eliminate the top altogether. What exactly do you lose with going pure speed? You might have trouble pounding the ball in on the 1, but if you have effective receivers on the outside, you don't have to go into your traditional goal line offense, ever. You might have trouble tossing jump balls in the endzone, so just run creative hot routes that allow for smart, quick slants rather than those grotesque corner lobs our QBs have been flailing with for ages. Just some thoughts on speed, more than anything. I think giving this offense more deep threats (rather than just Avery) and our rungame more homerun hitters can open up opposing defenses.
Posts: 59,314

03-25-2013, 08:53 PM	#2
Demonpenz Woman should only make babies Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $2992136	Larry Johnson was plenty fast. __________________
Posts: 54,297

03-25-2013, 08:54 PM	#4
B14ckmon Jagwire Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Cedar Rapids, IA Casino cash: $10004900	__________________ Luke Joeckel - Chiefs LT of the Future!
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03-25-2013, 08:58 PM	#5
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $1762500	Larry Johnson had great speed. Even when he was a rookie people used to act like he was slow because of the way he ran... but just watch him return kicks. His burst once he hit the hole was fantastic. That's what made him so tough. He was the opposite of Priest. Priest didn't have the top end-speed but his burst from yards 1-10 he was unparalleled.
Posts: 54,980

03-25-2013, 09:07 PM	#6
Buehler445 Supporter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Scott City KS Casino cash: $2074734	I've always loved speed. But it has to be a balance. If a CB can knock the WR off his route easily, it is pretty tough to get him the ball anywhere near where he is supposed to be. And if a RB is easy to bring down, it's ballgame whenever they get a mitt on him. The thing about Charles is he is a football player with track speed. Not a track guy in pads. If you can get a gamer with speed, you do that everyday of the week. You could take some shots on WR with elite speed and put him opposite Bowe, that would be super sick.
Posts: 56,904

03-25-2013, 09:11 PM	#7
Demonpenz Woman should only make babies Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $2992136	Sammie Parker was fast, but sucked. __________________
Posts: 54,297

03-25-2013, 09:12 PM	#8
crispystl MVP Join Date: Jun 2004 Casino cash: $1455140	I think it's part of the evolution of the game thanks to Rodger. Speed is exponentially more lethal than it used to be and power is worthless because.. hey it's a pussy league now.. and now running backs can't lead with the helmet?? Give me a ****ing break!
Posts: 6,656

03-25-2013, 09:14 PM	#9
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $3774454	Ethan Horton and Paul Palmer were plenty fast __________________ Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning: Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down. One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
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03-25-2013, 09:25 PM	#10
Simply Red You Sweetie! Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2021206219 VARSITY
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03-25-2013, 09:24 PM	#11
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $1654088	Just think if Larry Johnson had been the feature back the whole year in the season he had 1750 yards. He could have easily passed 2105. The guy had sick talent but a ten cent brain. Guy might have been a HOFer if he had his head on straight. __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
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03-25-2013, 09:26 PM	#12
Dante84 Tossed Salad & Scrambled Eggs Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: ATX & OPKS Casino cash: $1551996 VARSITY	This is why Oregon was so fun to watch in college. They recruited speed. Speed kills. __________________ ..
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03-25-2013, 09:29 PM	#13
mcaj22 MVP Join Date: Feb 2010 Casino cash: $10014454	there is plenty of things you lose with pure speed players one is size, two is durability. usually fast players are very light and break easily see: Johnny Knox, any Raiders player. all you have to do is press any speed WR and they are jammed off their routes. Which makes a guy like Calvin Johnson that rare of a player, a guy that fast with that size, is very, very rare. Mike Wallace cant beat the press, Torrey Smith cant beat the press, and they are currently the two best speed WRs in the NFL.
Posts: 11,886