Tesla unveil Semi, new Roadster, & also teased a "pickup truck"

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by aturnis

18650 only indicates the form factor. 18mmm by 65mmm cylindrical. They've switched to 2170 for the model 3, and possibly the energy storage, Semi and Roadster as well.

The true difference in battery tech is chemistry for both performance and cost.

I honestly don't think anyone will be able to compete. As noted in the call, Tesla has greatly reduced the need for cobalt in their batteries, and see a path to get it to almost nothing. This is HUGE for cost as prices have been trending upward.

If other automakers intend to go 100% electric, which they all do outside out Fiat and Toyota(sorry gearheads), they'll likely be putting prismatic cells in their cars to get the volume they'll need and to save on weight and shove batteries wherever they find space.

Problem is, cars are a terrible place to use prismatic cells. This is typically what traditional OEM's use though. They favor larger cell sizes and less connections. The problem is, they degrade faster, and if a single cell goes out, it can make a HUGE difference to performance/range.

Basically, when you hear the worn out adage of, "you'll have to replace the battery after 10 years, if it makes it that long"!, they are referring to prismatic cells. The vibrations of the road make the bagged chemistry shake itself apart faster. Other problems are losing a single cell is significant, as I said earlier, and they can be easily damaged/punctured in a wreck. Which of course can be dangerous.

This is why I'm not too worried about all other OEM's going electric. It might effect the stock early, but once the public understands the ins and outs, or OEM's have their reputations ruined by going with a poor solution, Tesla should remain out in front.

Yup, I'm familiar with the terminology. I'm counting on battery companies to keep my vaping gear operational. It's 21700 by the way rather than 2170. I currently use the LG HG2 (18650). The Samsung 30T (21700) has been tested and rated by an electrical engineer at 3000 mAh with a continuous discharge rating of 35 Amps. Not bad at all if you want a good, safe battery. By the time I swap away from 18650's I should be sitting pretty.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Ugly.

As.

****.

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate

Ugly.

As.

****.

Chinese startup(I believe), what do you expect? I've never understood why so many startups think next gen cars MUST be butt ugly.

I know why the traditional OEM's do it. Their EV and hybrids are compliance cars. Only built and offered to bring the average mpg of their fleet up above CARB State standards so their addressable market doesn't shrink. Only, as fiat, with their E500 have shown, they hate selling them b/c they lose money on each car for refusing to build out their supply chain. Solution: Make them ugly AF. Sell less. Comply. Profit.

[cooper barrett]

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate

Ugly.

As.

****.

BEVs, Making Camaros look like shit to Ed Begley Jr.

[vailpass]

Elon Musk fan boi sighting.

[cooper barrett]

Originally Posted by vailpass

Elon Musk fan boi sighting.

No shit, I am sure he sold a kidney to buy stock.

[Tribal Warfare]

Originally Posted by cooper barrett

No shit, I am sure he sold a kidney to buy stock.

Outside of the pickup truck they look very appealing.

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by vailpass

Elon Musk fan boi sighting.

Naw. I'm just smart enough to ignore Wall Street. Those nerds missed on Amazon b/c they couldn't get out of their own way and realize the strength technology brings to the table.

Have you looked at the gains made in batteries and solar over the last 5, hell, even 2.5 years?

Now realize that Tesla has the auto industry flailing to catch up after they all downsized to the point of having essentially zero electrical engineering in house, opting instead to focus on making engines with a fast approaching ceiling "better". Enter dieselgate.

Facts are, the auto industry all buy from the same parts manufacturers and basically just assemble parts off the shelf. They own the engine, but that's about it.

The investment to catch up is much larger than they assumed. Don't believe me, just ask Porsche CFO Lutz Meschke. https://www.teslarati.com/porsche-mi...le-investment/

To add to their ire, none of them know anything about software. Ford a bit with Sync and MAYBE GM has a partner with investment in Lyft, but both are essentially on the bench. That's why all auto systems UI suck so badly. It's developed by the parts supplier to "work". It's a bigger distraction on the road than Teslas giant screens. By a long shot.

Musk has a giant advantage there in that he owns 2 of the most attractive companies in the world to software programmers and software engineers as well as engineers at large.
https://www.recode.net/2017/10/26/16...s-tech-workers

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kathryn...dents-in-2016/

These guys missed on Apple, Google, Amazon, Nvidia, Broadcom, IBM, Netflix, Adobe etc. Anything they haven't seen before, they believe is a fad, a bubble or they explain it away some other way. They're old, out of touch and don't care about the future they won't be around for. Short term investors scoffing at long term potential. It's criminal what they do to investors.

So when it's cheaper to buy an EV than an ICE car, and cheaper to add solar to your house than to pay the electric bill every month, are you still going to throw good money after bad? Mind you the two together represent a $6,000+ annual savings plus energy independence for the average 2 adult household. Not to mention the equity the solar system adds to your property.

Both of these things will happen, without subsidy by 2027 at the latest. Prices are falling FAST.

Now that nearly half the world's populations representative governments have set dates for ICE car sales death, and forced the auto industry at large into the battery electric arena against their will, investment in battery research is skyrocketing.

There's absolutely a Moore's law for everything. Now, with bigger investment in research, the investment/progress timeline for batteries is accelerating.

[BWillie]

Imma go to Florida to buy one in a 2 weeks. Can prob get a used end of 2014 Tesla Model S for $45k. Can save on avg 5-7% buying used cars in S Florida.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by BWillie

Imma go to Florida to buy one in a 2 weeks. Can prob get a used end of 2014 Tesla Model S for $45k. Can save on avg 5-7% buying used cars in S Florida.

$45k for a four year old used car you'll have to find somewhere to plug in every 300 miles on your way home then stand around waiting for it to charge to full.

Sounds good.

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by vailpass

$45k for a four year old used car you'll have to find somewhere to plug in every 300 miles on your way home then stand around waiting for it to charge to full.

Sounds good.

Buying a new car is a fools game. Although you do get a 7.5k tax credit, but the amt of depreciation is just not worth it.

Buy new Tesla for 100k. Sell it for 50k 3 years later. And Teslas even hold their value better than most cars of this luxury class.

Oorrr buy one used for 45k. Sell it 3 years later for 30k.

As more and more superchargers become built it will be almost just like gas stations. Most of the time you arent taking your Tesla on long trips, that would be when i would use my Prius anyway so i dont put the miles on it. I understand you can charge your Tesla up to 80% in about 20 min at a supercharging station.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by BWillie

Buying a new car is a fools game. Although you do get a 7.5k tax credit, but the amt of depreciation is just not worth it.

Buy new Tesla for 100k. Sell it for 50k 3 years later. And Teslas even hold their value better than most cars of this luxury class.

Oorrr buy one used for 45k. Sell it 3 years later for 30k.

As more and more superchargers become built it will be almost just like gas stations. Most of the time you arent taking your Tesla on long trips, that would be when i would use my Prius anyway so i dont put the miles on it. I understand you can charge your Tesla up to 80% in about 20 min at a supercharging station.

Nice. $45k used car that you don't use for road trips.

If you want to live your life never driving new vehicles that's up to you.
Vehicles are an expense not an investment. Tesla is a good example of that. It would take you several lifetimes to recoup the money you save on gas from the purchase price of a tesla. But you're a Prius driver so you're familiar with that concept.

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by vailpass

Nice. $45k used car that you don't use for road trips.

If you want to live your life never driving new vehicles that's up to you.
Vehicles are an expense not an investment. Tesla is a good example of that. It would take you several lifetimes to recoup the money you save on gas from the purchase price of a tesla. But you're a Prius driver so you're familiar with that concept.

Of course they are an expense but you can mitigate the expense by buying used. Electric cars are eventually going to make the cost of ownership go way down for car owners once the infrastructure gets rolled out and as more ppl adopt them. Tesla is just the 1st step. The gas savings clearly isnt why ppl buy Teslas but its kind of icing on the cake type of deal. No oil changes. Brakes usually last 100k+ miles. Low maintenance costs

[notorious]

New vehicle purchases are hugely advantageous to a business owner.

I save a shitload in tax money, and over the 2-3 year life of owning it will be damn near the same cost as buying used only without the headaches.

Give me an electric pickup that has the same torque and range as a diesel and I'm game.

[cooper barrett]

Originally Posted by notorious

New vehicle purchases are hugely advantageous to a business owner.

I save a shitload in tax money, and over the 2-3 year life of owning it will be damn near the same cost as buying used only without the headaches.

Give me an electric pickup that has the same torque and range as a diesel and I'm game.

I haven't done a company vehicle for quite some time, I write off the mileage or take expenses, I get the same mileage write on a used vehicle as a new one and unless something has changed, expenses are done the same on used also.

What's the benefit of buying new and trading it in to be able to write another one off.

I know you're in a service business so 95% of your miles are expensed...

I always had a work truck and a business car, business car was almost always a 2 year old AMG thus not taking the depreciation hit while still under a MB service policy.