***The Santos vs. Succop Thread***

[Dante84]

Surprisingly enough, this is going to likely be the most talked about preseason battle outside of our QB battle. Let this be the thread where we let our thoughts be known throughout camp and the games.

Here is an interesting article with some good stats:

BOOM!

Cairo Santos turns heads. No. Wait.

THUD!

He wounds ears. It's a brontosaurus in a tutu, dancing through the tulips. No. Hang on.

THOOM!

It's like Thor taking that giant hammer of his and playing table tennis with your head. Yeah. That's it.

WHAM!

"With no wind, or indoors, (the range is) 60," Santos, the rookie kicker who's been one of the talking points of Kansas City Chiefs training camp, recently told reporters. "If I have the wind to my back, I think 65. I can go into the wind around 50. So, it's all about staying fresh for game day and you can hit those long ones."

Kickers do not reach the radar of cynical scribes in the spring and summer, especially when there's an established veteran -- Ryan Succop -- on hand, especially when the competition is perceived to be more ceremonial than substantive.

But then we heard the sound. That booming, wacky Thor/table tennis sound, again and again.

If Dustin Colquitt can bring rain, Cairo Santos brings thunder.

"I've said this before, I think he's an NFL-caliber kicker," special teams coordinator Dave Toub, the recipient of outright trust -- if not love -- from Chiefs fans after his renovation job of the last 15 months. "I think he's going to be in the NFL, whether it's on our team or on another team. The competition is real and we're excited about Cairo and what he's able to bring."

What's even more remarkable is that it's brought from a cat who checks in at 5-foot-8, 160 pounds and change, soaking wet. The Brazillian's right leg is the football equivalent of one of those Bose-brand Bluetooth speakers, a lollipop that swings like a bloody sledgehammer.

"I think because I'm not a big guy, and strong like the other NFL kickers, that I rely on technique and consistency," said Santos, the 2012 Lou Groza Award winner during his junior season at Tulane. "I have short steps that give me that consistency and follow-through, so I just rely on my consistency."

The sound of the ball of Santos' foot got everybody's attention in May. The fact he's still bringing it has kept this subplot bubbling into preseason training camp. Succop, 27, clearly has a fight on his hands, even if the fight is only for another few weeks. Santos has been impressive enough in practices and head-to-head competition that those same cynical scribes have started to notice Succop's price tag, especially with the Justin Houston and Alex Smith contract sagas ongoing.

According to OverTheCap.com, Succop is working with a $2.708 million cap number this fall and a $3.508 million number in 2015. If the Chiefs cut him, they project to increase their 2014 cap cushion from $5.696 million to $6.18 million -- but the real savings would be next fall, lifting their '15 cap room from $12.916 million to $16.425 million.

Not that any of this is necessarily Succop's fault -- he's made good on 81 percent of his field-goal tries since 2009 and, over the last three seasons, the Chiefs' incumbent kicker is a solid 6-for-10 on shots from 50 yards out or greater.

But Succop was also just 1-for-4 from that distance last year. And while OverTheCap.com lists him as the 12th-highest-paid kicker in the NFL, Pro Football Focus (PFF.com) ranked him 18th among NFL starting kickers in 2011, 28th in 2012 and 19th last season -- an average placement of 22nd.

PFF.com ranked the former Gamecock No. 19 among qualified kickers in terms of kickoff effectiveness in 2011; No. 29 in 2012; and No. 15 in 2013. Again: Solid. Not elite.

Throwing Santos into the mix thickens the plot. And the pot. With Thor's hammer doing the dirty work, Tulane led all Football Bowl Subdivision schools last fall in touchback percentage on kickoffs (75.81) and ranked 12th nationally in 2012 (55.36). In 2013, only two of Santos' kickoffs failed to reach the end zone.

As a junior, Santos became just the second kicker in modern FBS history to take 20 or more attempts and make all 20 -- he was 21-for-21, including a 57-yarder and a 54-yarder.

Granted, the Green Wave played their home tilts at the kicker-friendly Superdome, which brings up the usual caveats and questions. Namely:

Can he kick outdoors? Of Tulane's 29 kickoffs at road/neutral sites last fall, a whopping 86.21 percent went for touchbacks.

Can he kick in crappy weather? Of the Green Wave's 21 kicks on November 1, 2013 or later, 17 -- 80.9 percent of them -- were touchbacks, including three of four after November 30.

"Whether it's here or somewhere else, he looks like he has a leg to be a NFL kicker," coach Andy Reid said last month, sharing Toub's caveat. "We'll see."

Accuracy is the trick, the question, the great unknown. Away from the dome, Santos connected on just 6-of-11 field goals last fall. He was 9-for-9 in 2012; 5-for-8 in 2011 and 5-for-7 in 2010. Career road/neutral conversion rate: 25-for-35, or 71.4 percent.

Point of comparison: Succop's rate at South Carolina from 2005-08 was 21-for-35, or 60 percent.

POW!

"The biggest thing for me is to impress this coaching staff," Santos said. "If I can't get a job here, I trust that they'll put in a word to another team for me. I know that coach Toub is very well-respected in the NFL, so I'm thankful to be kicking in front of this staff. And I know whatever happens, they'll be willing to help me out."

Whatever happens, the last three months should wind up turning into something good for Santos, somewhere. Even it's only just a friendly push, chances are it'll lead to something good for Succop, too. And either way, something even better for the Chiefs. Something loud.

http://www.foxsports.com/kansas-city...fs-camp-072814

[Titty Meat]

Originally Posted by New World Order

Jim Caldwell was the one who turned Baltimore's offense around during their super bowl run.

Whats his record as a head coach at Wake Forest and Indianapolis? Detroit basically hired him because Wisenhunt didnt want the job.

[New World Order]

Originally Posted by Chocolate Hog

Whats his record as a head coach at Wake Forest and Indianapolis? Detroit basically hired him because Wisenhunt didnt want the job.

INDY is another animal. That team was set up entirely around Peyton Manning and when he went down everything went to shit.

Jim Caldwell was a big reason the Ravens won a title and why Flacco received such a fat contract.

I am just saying he's not as bad as everyone thinks.

[TEX]

The Chiefs need a better kicker than Succop but they're not going to cut him for Santos.

[Hootie]

only Chiefs fans would be content with a kicker who has ranked between the 24th-28th best kicker his entire career sans his rookie year (where he was 10th). Add in his atrocious contract and his knack for missing big kicks...

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

only Chiefs fans would be content with a kicker who has ranked between the 24th-28th best kicker his entire career sans his rookie year (where he was 10th). Add in his atrocious contract and his knack for missing big kicks...

Its part of the 7-9 Hope tradition that runs deep in the fan base...

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Chocolate Hog

Yeah he was clutch last year vs San Diego or how he kicked us into the playoffs 2011 vs the Raiders

This is stupid. Every kicker has missed one or two game-winning shots in his career. Even Adam Vinatieri.

Succop can absolutely be upgraded due to his lack of kicking range, but missing clutch shots isn't one of them.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by SNR

This is stupid. Every kicker has missed one or two game-winning shots in his career. Even Adam Vinatieri.

Succop can absolutely be upgraded due to his lack of kicking range, but missing clutch shots isn't one of them.

totally disagree.

I have zero faith Succop will ever make an important (a truly important) kick in his NFL career. Zero.

Every NFL kicker who has kicked for a few seasons has made a game winner or two. Whatever.

I can only imagine what would have happened at that Indy game if Bowe stayed in bounds and Succop had a shot to win it with a kick. I have a feeling his name would be filtered on this website by now as well.

Dude ****ing sucks. He's not good, he's not accurate, he's not long. He's literally about the 25th-28th best NFL kicker.

And we pay him like he's a top 8 kicker.

There is no argument for him to be on this team.

[Reerun_KC]

Hootie v2.0 just shut down this thread....

[Hootie]

and as previously mentioned...he is directly responsible for the Tebow playoff heroics and the San Diego playoff run last year.

His atrocious kicking has led to two of our rivals getting to come to this board and make fun of our ineptitude. DIRECTLY LED. But thank god we pay him like he's an elite kicker!!

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

totally disagree.

I have zero faith Succop will ever make an important (a truly important) kick in his NFL career. Zero.

Could that maybe be because he's only ever played for the Chiefs? Not exactly a great opportunity to make truly important kicks every Sunday.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by SNR

Could that maybe be because he's only ever played for the Chiefs? Not exactly a great opportunity to make truly important kicks every Sunday.

I can think of two important kicks that he hasn't made that has directly led to our rivals making, what I can only assume to be, really fun runs in the playoffs that included playoff wins!!!!!!

but thank God he was actually a little above league average his rookie year when we were a God awful team.

I'm super glad we paid a kicker who has regressed every year like he's amongst the elite at his position.

[Halfcan]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I think Succop sucks complete asshole.

This isn't 15 years ago...every kicker makes 80% these days.

This dipshit has missed too many big kicks for my liking. I have zero faith in him.

I hope he gets cut and this new dickbag wins this battle.

such a wizard with words- I was going to post something but can't think of anything better than this.

[Hootie]

I admit, I do hate kickers. The only one I ever liked on the Chiefs was Pete Stoyanovich and I was too young to probably even know any better.

That being said...kicking as at an all-time high now. Kickers are more and more like machines. The great ones don't miss. They are hitting over 90% year in and year out now. The good ones are all hitting 85%+.

why are we settling for one that hits 78% or less?

Last year 20 teams made more than 86.2% of their field goals attempted.

I will stop hating our ****ing kicker...whoever it may be...when they started hitting 90% year in and year out.

They get paid to do one ****ing thing.

[Halfcan]

According to OverTheCap.com, Succop is working with a $2.708 million cap number this fall and a $3.508 million number in 2015. If the Chiefs cut him, they project to increase their 2014 cap cushion from $5.696 million to $6.18 million -- but the real savings would be next fall, lifting their '15 cap room from $12.916 million to $16.425 million.

Welcome to the team Santos.

[Halfcan]

K: Succop
P: Colquitt
LS: Gafford
KR: Thomas, Davis
PR: Thomas, Davis

Direckshun predicted Succop as our kicker. Shows over folks-nothing to see here...