Official 2017 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

My as well get it started. Here's my "Matheny" lineup.....

Fowler CF
Diaz SS
Carpenter 1B
Piscotty RF
Grichuk LF
Molina C
Peralta 3B
Wong 2B
Pitcher

My "Matheny" Starting rotation

Martinez
Reyes
Wainwright
Lynn
Leake

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

Speaking of Albert he's 5 dingers away from 600, and 141 hits away from 3000. His production dropped off significantly when he went to Anaheim, if he could have hit at his Stl pace he would have reached both of those numbers by now. Those are some incredible numbers for a guy who's only played for 17 years though.

Well, if he kept his St. Louis pace he'd be the greatest hitter ever, because he had the greatest 10-year start to his career of anyone in MLB history (which, ironically, will be surpassed by Mike Trout).

He had 77 WAR in his first ten years and his lowest wRC in any of those years was 150, which would have been 8th in baseball last year.

I watch the team now, and it's a decent team, but the excitement around his every at-bat when he was in his prime was truly special, and I really miss it.

[bdj23]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Well, if he kept his St. Louis pace he'd be the greatest hitter ever, because he had the greatest 10-year start to his career of anyone in MLB history (which, ironically, will be surpassed by Mike Trout).

He had 77 WAR in his first ten years and his lowest wRC in any of those years was 150, which would have been 8th in baseball last year.

I watch the team now, and it's a decent team, but the excitement around his every at-bat when he was in his prime was truly special, and I really miss it.

I always say I'm lucky to have had him play for ny favorite team and to save seen him play in person several times.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by BDj23

I always say I'm lucky to have had him play for ny favorite team and to save seen him play in person several times.

Yep. And the Cardinals were lucky that Anaheim ended up paying for it.

[O.city]

Yeah, he really was the machine. It sucks to watch these guys decline. Albert has been the first guy I've had to watch from beginning to end.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

You think Tim McCarver is terrible?

Right now? Yeah he's pretty bad in 2017. He was tolerable years ago.

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by O.city

Yeah, he really was the machine. It sucks to watch these guys decline. Albert has been the first guy I've had to watch from beginning to end.

Honestly with the foot problems and back issues he had while he was a Cardinal, I'm surprised he has lasted this long.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

Right now? Yeah he's pretty bad in 2017. He was tolerable years ago.

It's sort of like watching the game with your half-senile grandpa.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

Hopefully when Martinez and Piscotty are healthy they find a way to keep him up. He came from single A so he's bound to cool off but he's been a very nice surprise so far.

And don't look now but Fowler seems to be really nice as a pinch hitter. Maybe he's finding his groove at the plate.

There just aren't enough ABs for him and lets be honest - he's still a kid that was WAY away from the majors just a few months ago.

When Martinez and Piscotty are healthy, send him to AA. He can take the momentum from the MLB stint and take his shot at the biggest jump there is (that A+ to AA move separates the men from the boys, IMO). And the Texas league is a big time hitters league combined with his home park being a big time hitters park (Hammond really inflates numbers).

He can get off to a damn nice start in AA and use that momentum to build towards a full season in AAA in 2018 and a shot at a legit starting gig and full time ABs in 2019. He's still a baby and he still has some physical development that he'll need to learn to put into practice. He'll find 10-15 lbs of muscle in the coming years and if he can turn that into 15 HR pop, he'll be a genuine weapon.

They shouldn't stall his development and use up his service time getting him 75 ABs in the majors. Send him to AA and keep him swinging. If another injury pops up, he's already on the 40-man and has used his option for the year so you can move him up and down as needed.

You can't let him wither away on the bench.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Well, if he kept his St. Louis pace he'd be the greatest hitter ever, because he had the greatest 10-year start to his career of anyone in MLB history (which, ironically, will be surpassed by Mike Trout).

He had 77 WAR in his first ten years and his lowest wRC in any of those years was 150, which would have been 8th in baseball last year.

I watch the team now, and it's a decent team, but the excitement around his every at-bat when he was in his prime was truly special, and I really miss it.

If you were to take his worst season in any of the 'major' stats over his first 10 years and add them together to create a single composite line, it would've still been better than the best season of just about every single player in the game. There were like 3 guys that could compare with his 'worst of every category' stat line.

He really was incredible. Probably the best pure righthanded hitter I'll ever see. Trout will end up a little more dangerous, but Trout has periods where he can be pitched to and there are more holes in his swing than Pujols at his peak. Trout's defense and baserunning gives him a better WAR by a fair amount but as far as true, complete, 'professional hitters' go, I've never seen a better righty and doubt I ever will.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

There just aren't enough ABs for him and lets be honest - he's still a kid that was WAY away from the majors just a few months ago.

When Martinez and Piscotty are healthy, send him to AA. He can take the momentum from the MLB stint and take his shot at the biggest jump there is (that A+ to AA move separates the men from the boys, IMO). And the Texas league is a big time hitters league combined with his home park being a big time hitters park (Hammond really inflates numbers).

He can get off to a damn nice start in AA and use that momentum to build towards a full season in AAA in 2018 and a shot at a legit starting gig and full time ABs in 2019. He's still a baby and he still has some physical development that he'll need to learn to put into practice. He'll find 10-15 lbs of muscle in the coming years and if he can turn that into 15 HR pop, he'll be a genuine weapon.

They shouldn't stall his development and use up his service time getting him 75 ABs in the majors. Send him to AA and keep him swinging. If another injury pops up, he's already on the 40-man and has used his option for the year so you can move him up and down as needed.

You can't let him wither away on the bench.

If he could be a 15 HR guy, with his speed, he'd be a really nice weapon. I'm not sure he could ever get his OBP high enough to do it, but he'd be a damn nice leadoff guy if he could.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

If you were to take his worst season in any of the 'major' stats over his first 7 years and add them together to create a single composite line, it would've still been better than the best season of just about every single player in the game. There were like 3 guys that could compare with his 'worst of every category' stat line.

He really was incredible. Probably the best pure righthanded hitter I'll ever see. Trout will end up a little more dangerous, but Trout has periods where he can be pitched to and there are more holes in his swing than Pujols at his peak. Trout's defense and baserunning gives him a better WAR by a fair amount but as far as true, complete, 'professional hitters' go, I've never seen a better righty and doubt I ever will.

When he was really locked in, in say, the 04 thru 0809 stretch, and hitting line drives to right center, there just wasn't really a way to get him out consistently. He was so so good.

In the end, what happened happened and I'm kind of glad from the perspective of not having to watch him wither in a STL uniform, but had he stayed and finished out in STL, he'd be bigger than Stan.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

When he was really locked in, in say, the 04 thru 0809 stretch, and hitting line drives to right center, there just wasn't really a way to get him out consistently. He was so so good.

In the end, what happened happened and I'm kind of glad from the perspective of not having to watch him wither in a STL uniform, but had he stayed and finished out in STL, he'd be bigger than Stan.

Nah.

He'd be close, but Stan was the identity of the team during an era when baseball was in its golden age. As time went on and the people that remembered Stan started to pass away, Pujols would eventually replace him as the 'legend du jour' but he'd never surpass him.

And instead St. Louis will remember Yadier Molina more fondly even though his last couple of years here will look pretty similar to Peralta's, IMO.

Albert will be a man without a home. Anaheim/LA doesn't give a wet shit about him and he'll get little more than polite applause in St. Louis. That 'personal services contract' he signed with Anaheim that will keep him tied to the organization for another 10 years after he retires will be enough runway for Cardinals fans to all but forget about him after his playing days.

I won't cry for him - he made his decision.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Nah.

He'd be close, but Stan was the identity of the team during an era when baseball was in its golden age. As time went on and the people that remembered Stan started to pass away, Pujols would eventually replace him as the 'legend du jour' but he'd never surpass him.

And instead St. Louis will remember Yadier Molina more fondly even though his last couple of years here will look pretty similar to Peralta's, IMO.

Albert will be a man without a home. Anaheim/LA doesn't give a wet shit about him and he'll get little more than polite applause in St. Louis. That 'personal services contract' he signed with Anaheim that will keep him tied to the organization for another 10 years after he retires will be enough runway for Cardinals fans to all but forget about him after his playing days.

I won't cry for him - he made his decision.

Yeah, he made his bed. It is what it is.

But for our generation, Albert would have been STL Cardinals baseball. Now, it'll be Yadi, and a little bit of Albert. It sucks.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Yeah, he made his bed. It is what it is.

But for our generation, Albert would have been STL Cardinals baseball. Now, it'll be Yadi, and a little bit of Albert. It sucks.

Yeah, a little.

I'm going to be fascinated to see how St. Louis remembers LaRussa. He'll never be as beloved as Herzog and I just don't get that. Herzog ate shit with some incredibly talented teams in his own right and then he ****ing quit mid-season. And while people loved to barbecue LaRussa for trying weird shit like the pitcher at 8, Herzog was nearly as bad and in some ways worse. The shit with putting Worrell in RF for a batter, for instance. Personally, I find it clever as hell but I saw some benefit in batting the pitcher 8 as well. If you hate LaRussa's tinkering, I just don't see how you could love Herzog. If you hated his arrogance, how can you give Herzog a pass? If you think he wasted talent, Herzog had just as many awful years with great players.

Ultimately LaRussa should be seen as the greatest manager the franchise has ever had. But it's not gonna happen. I just don't think he was 'midwest' enough for the fanbase. A little too west coast intellectual snob whereas Herzog was the blue collar darling.

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yeah, a little.

I'm going to be fascinated to see how St. Louis remembers LaRussa. He'll never be as beloved as Herzog and I just don't get that. Herzog ate shit with some incredibly talented teams in his own right and then he ****ing quit mid-season. And while people loved to barbecue LaRussa for trying weird shit like the pitcher at 8, Herzog was nearly as bad and in some ways worse. The shit with putting Worrell in RF for a batter, for instance. Personally, I find it clever as hell but I saw some benefit in batting the pitcher 8 as well. If you hate LaRussa's tinkering, I just don't see how you could love Herzog. If you hated his arrogance, how can you give Herzog a pass? If you think he wasted talent, Herzog had just as many awful years with great players.

Ultimately LaRussa should be seen as the greatest manager the franchise has ever had. But it's not gonna happen. I just don't think he was 'midwest' enough for the fanbase. A little too west coast intellectual snob whereas Herzog was the blue collar darling.

There's no way to look at it objectively and come to any other conclusion. TLR was head and shoulders better than Whitey.