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Old 03-29-2023, 08:39 AM  
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***Official 2023 STL Cardinals Thread ***
2023 thread. Walker makes the roster. I'll update the rosters and opening day lineup when its official

2023 Opening Day Lineup
Spoiler!

2022 Opening Day roster.
Spoiler!

For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006.
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Old 11-27-2023, 11:32 AM   #1516
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So the question is, are we done with starting pitching? We really need one more arm (Cease, Glasnow, etc).
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Old 11-27-2023, 11:41 AM   #1517
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So the question is, are we done with starting pitching? We really need one more arm (Cease, Glasnow, etc).
Man, I just don't love those guys as trade targets. Cease just walks too many guys. The list of guys who walk as many as he does and are successful is just SO short. I really feel like 2022 was the outlier season and 2023 is more along the lines of what you're likely to get from him. Maybe 2021 as a happy medium; lots of Ks, solid effort but a ton of inefficiency that caps his value a bit. And a pending FA to boot.

Glasnow has something going on biomechnically that won't allow him to stay healthy. He just won't.

I just feel like Logan Gilbert has to be the target. Kirby is off the table for them and Castillo has a long-term deal. Ray should be returning this year, Hancock seems to be emerging, Woo looks solid in the back of the rotation and even Bryce Miller appears to be a viable 5th starter. They're one of the few teams that can actually claim a pitching surplus and they could REALLY use what we have to offer (again, one of the few teams that could).

There has to be something makeable around Gorman/Gilbert. And I don't really see Gilbert as a true 'ace' in his own right, but you don't ever get those guys once they establish themselves as such (just as the time to be aggressive for Kirby would've been last off-season). You've gotta strike early and hope for some development. And with Gilbert, your floor is WAY up there.
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Old 11-27-2023, 01:24 PM   #1518
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Originally Posted by Marco Polo View Post
So the question is, are we done with starting pitching? We really need one more arm (Cease, Glasnow, etc).
Mo says this is enough.

Gray
Mikolas
Gibson
Lynn
& Matz
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Old 11-27-2023, 02:11 PM   #1519
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Mo says this is enough.

Gray
Mikolas
Gibson
Lynn
& Matz
That's so awful and I like the Gray deal....
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Old 11-27-2023, 03:43 PM   #1520
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Old 11-27-2023, 04:35 PM   #1521
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Don't worry, guys, I'm sure the best catcher of his generation, and one of the two or three best right-handed hitters ever are going to be walking through that door to give their prime years to this team at below market value.
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Old 11-27-2023, 04:35 PM   #1522
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That's so awful and I like the Gray deal....
Yeah isn’t it a 2 year deal with a club option for a 3rd if it’s going well? If so, I’m surprised Sonny signed that.
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Old 11-27-2023, 05:30 PM   #1523
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Old 11-27-2023, 05:50 PM   #1524
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So initial reports were wrong. It’s a 4 year deal with a voidable 4th year.
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Old 11-27-2023, 05:52 PM   #1525
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I just saw that the 3rd year option is for 30m with a 5M buyout per Goold. Seems like a better than expected deal.
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Old 11-27-2023, 06:15 PM   #1526
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It was a good deal. Unfortunately the trash Lynn/Gibson/Matz/past Mikolas deal offset it by a mile. When you're just wasting money on 4 trash starters, what's the point of Sonny?

Karriker hit this point home a bit more eloquently this morning.
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Old 11-27-2023, 07:02 PM   #1527
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Who would want Matz?

The #STLCards have told teams that LHP Steven Matz is available via trade, per Michael Marino.

Japanese superstar Yoshinobu Yamamoto could fill that rotation spot, as Jeff Jones says the Cardinals’ interest in him is ‘real.’

Matz, entering the third year of his 4-year, $44 million deal, was relegated to the bullpen last season before making his return to the rotation in early July; he pitched to a 1.82 ERA and a 2.84 FIP in 7 starts to finish the year.

However, given his .235 BABIP in that stretch, it may not be sustainable.

With his strong end to the 2023 season, now seems like the time to sell high on him.

In the process, the club will kill two birds with one stone – freeing up $12.5 million in payroll and opening a rotation spot.
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Old 11-27-2023, 08:00 PM   #1528
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Lance Lynn just got $11 million and is definitively worse than Matz.

If you're going to spend $11 million on Lynn, why would you turn around and trade Matz at $12 million? No, he's not a workhorse but when healthy he's a legit 3. Lynn ain't. If you sneak into the post-season because of a bad division, Matz is someone you could give the ball at some point and not hate yourself for it.

Matz, oddly enough, has actual upside in his contract and even 2 healthy months to start the season would make him a DAMN attractive deadline piece. There's just not a great reason to deal him.
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Old 11-27-2023, 08:06 PM   #1529
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I just saw that the 3rd year option is for 30m with a 5M buyout per Goold. Seems like a better than expected deal.
That's the 4th year.

It's essentially a 3 year, $70 million deal plus a $30 million 4th year or $5 million team buyout. So effectively 3/$75 but if Gray ages like Charlie Morton, the 4th year isn't necessarily cost prohibitive.

But it's pretty damn unlikely. Much simpler to just think of it as 3/$75 and move along.
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Old 11-27-2023, 08:40 PM   #1530
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Thank God they got the Stifel patch photoshopped on there, was worried Mo might miss out on that money.
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