Andy Reid seems to think all Tackles are created equal . . .

[Fat Elvis]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

If you mean ignorant in the sense that we don't really know yet, and will not know till a few years down the road . . . . then, yes, I could agree with that.

But I think it's fair to say that no QB in this draft was projected to be a starter right from day one (there were certainly no Luck's or RG3's this year).

For that reason, I was fine with the Chiefs signing an undrafted free agent QB who has just as much 'potential' as any QB in this draft, rather than spending a high pick on a QB just so we can say we did.

Tyler Bray has a very high ceiling, but he also has major 'bust' potential. So what's the difference between him and the few other QB's taken in the first few rounds? In terms of a ceiling, not much. But obviously the floor is a lot lower on Bray than Smith or Manuel. But who cares? Isn't the goal to get an ELITE QB? If Smith or Manuel bust, you could end up with another "game-manager" QB, at best. Why is that significant? Well, I think most everyone on here has made it pretty clear how they feel about a "game-manager" QB. We DON'T want one!

So, logically, you would take the guy(s) with the highest reward potential while minimizing your risk (i.e. late round QB, undrafted FA). And that is EXACTLY what THIS draft was! There were no winning lottery tickets in this draft. Is it going to be like that in every draft? No, definitely not. But the Chiefs minimized their risk, while maximizing their potential.

I realize that won't satisfy the "we want a 1st round QB, no matter who he is" crowd, but it is a smart and prudent move by a new GM and coach looking to build something from the ground up. Why start treading water from the beginning??


And bottom line: we're going to need an ELITE O-Line to make this offense work the way Reid wants it to, so might as well take care of that while we can. The QB will have to wait till next year . . . . .

"Bust potential?" We signed the guy as an UDFA. There is no "bust" UDFAs. He can sit on a park bench and drool and the Chiefs are no worse off. We gave up NOTHING to get him. There is only upside. A lot of potential upside.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Originally Posted by Fat Elvis

"Bust potential?" We signed the guy as an UDFA. There is no "bust" UDFAs. He can sit on a park bench and drool and the Chiefs are no worse off. We gave up NOTHING to get him. There is only upside. A lot of potential upside.

I'm aware of this. Clearly, you missed the point of what I was saying.

Bray may 'bust', but as a UDFA there is zero downside for the Chiefs. They signed a guy with a very high ceiling with little to no risk.

Whereas teams like Buffalo and the Jets risked a lot more by drafting their guys in the first 2 rounds, whose ceilings are not really that much higher, if any higher, than Brays.

In other words, the Chiefs were smart. If Bray flops, so what? You haven't really lost anything. I was complimenting them on their QB strategy, not criticizing.

[HMc]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

I'm aware of this. Clearly, you missed the point of what I was saying.

Bray may 'bust', but as a UDFA there is zero downside for the Chiefs. They signed a guy with a very high ceiling with little to no risk.

Whereas teams like Buffalo and the Jets risked a lot more by drafting their guys in the first 2 rounds, whose ceilings are not really that much higher, if any higher, than Brays.

In other words, the Chiefs were smart. If Bray flops, so what? You haven't really lost anything. I was complimenting them on their QB strategy, not criticizing.

If Manuel and Smith have the same "ceiling" as Bray, then the difference must be that they are much more likely to get there. Bray wasn't passed on >5 times by every single team because he is basically the same as Geno Smith - he fell out of the draft becuase he's evidently got the intellect of a young domestic animal.

Make no mistake about it, the likelihood that Bray wins more than 2 or 3 NFL games is miniscule. It will be a miracle if he shows anything at NFL level.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Originally Posted by HMc

If Manuel and Smith have the same "ceiling" as Bray, then the difference must be that they are much more likely to get there. Bray wasn't passed on >5 times by every single team because he is basically the same as Geno Smith - he fell out of the draft becuase he's evidently got the intellect of a young domestic animal.

Make no mistake about it, the likelihood that Bray wins more than 2 or 3 NFL games is miniscule. It will be a miracle if he shows anything at NFL level.

Agreed for the most part.

The reason Smith was drafted in the 2nd and Bray went undrafted has a lot more to do with the worst-case scenario, rather than the best.

But if the worst-case scenario plays itself out for both teams, who would you rather be? The Jets, who spent a second round pick on a guy that will never be more than average. Or the Chiefs, who signed an UDFA who is out of football in a couple years?

If the goal is always to obtain a "franchise" QB, which I believe it should be, then I would much rather be the Chiefs than the Jets.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

Agreed for the most part.

The reason Smith was drafted in the 2nd and Bray went undrafted has a lot more to do with the worst-case scenario, rather than the best.

But if the worst-case scenario plays itself out for both teams, who would you rather be? The Jets, who spent a second round pick on a guy that will never be more than average. Or the Chiefs, who signed an UDFA who is out of football in a couple years?

If the goal is always to obtain a "franchise" QB, which I believe it should be, then I would much rather be the Chiefs than the Jets.

I think I'd rather be the team not relying on UDFA's to "beat the odds". Goddamnit man, this ISN'T "Rudy" for ****'s sake...
Posted via Mobile Device

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate

I think I'd rather be the team not relying on UDFA's to "beat the odds". Goddamnit man, this ISN'T "Rudy" for ****'s sake...
Posted via Mobile Device

"Relying on" is a little strong, don't you think?

I think the Chiefs just took a shot on an UDFA and said 'what the hell, why not?'

You would prefer they spend a #1 pick on the 'best' QB in a sh*t QB class?

JaMarcus Russell says hello . . . .

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

"Relying on" is a little strong, don't you think?

I think the Chiefs just took a shot on an UDFA and said 'what the hell, why not?'

You would prefer they spend a #1 pick on the 'best' QB in a sh*t QB class?

JaMarcus Russell says hello . . . .

By all means NO. I'd prefer we keep our outstanding track record of success with other peoples cast-offs!
Posted via Mobile Device

[HMc]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

Agreed for the most part.

The reason Smith was drafted in the 2nd and Bray went undrafted has a lot more to do with the worst-case scenario, rather than the best.

But if the worst-case scenario plays itself out for both teams, who would you rather be? The Jets, who spent a second round pick on a guy that will never be more than average. Or the Chiefs, who signed an UDFA who is out of football in a couple years?

If the goal is always to obtain a "franchise" QB, which I believe it should be, then I would much rather be the Chiefs than the Jets.

That entirely contradicts the rest of your post.

Even if their ceilings are identical, Smith looks about 100 times more likely to reach it.

So you approve of signing undrafted QBs in the search of a franchise QB? And you prefer that to spending the ~40th pick on a guy that had am awful lot of 1st round noise about him? Seriously?

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Originally Posted by HMc

That entirely contradicts the rest of your post.

Even if their ceilings are identical, Smith looks about 100 times more likely to reach it.

So you approve of signing undrafted QBs in the search of a franchise QB? And you prefer that to spending the ~40th pick on a guy that had am awful lot of 1st round noise about him? Seriously?

100x more likely, huh? You willing to place a bet in Vegas on those odds?

Ahhhhh, yes . . . . . the first round 'buzz'. There's that talk again. And yet not a single team picking in the first round selected him. Go figure.

No, I don't prefer the Chiefs go dumpster-diving to find their future franchise QB, but I'd rather them sign an UDFA like Bray than spend 1.1 on Jamarcus Russell Part Deux.

But that's just me . . . .

[HMc]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

100x more likely, huh? You willing to place a bet in Vegas on those odds?

Ahhhhh, yes . . . . . the first round 'buzz'. There's that talk again. And yet not a single team picking in the first round selected him. Go figure.

No, I don't prefer the Chiefs go dumpster-diving to find their future franchise QB, but I'd rather them sign an UDFA like Bray than spend 1.1 on Jamarcus Russell Part Deux.

But that's just me . . . .

3 posts ago it was the Jets with the 39th pick..Now it's the 1.1.

The goalposts are shifting.

I'm fine with picking up Bray as a UDFA. Would have been fine with using the 34 on Smith. I think you are desperate to conclude that they did better than the jets, and will use all sorts of wierd non-reasoning to do so.

[Fat Elvis]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

I'm aware of this. Clearly, you missed the point of what I was saying.

Bray may 'bust', but as a UDFA there is zero downside for the Chiefs. They signed a guy with a very high ceiling with little to no risk.

Whereas teams like Buffalo and the Jets risked a lot more by drafting their guys in the first 2 rounds, whose ceilings are not really that much higher, if any higher, than Brays.

In other words, the Chiefs were smart. If Bray flops, so what? You haven't really lost anything. I was complimenting them on their QB strategy, not criticizing.

Gotcha