Did Tony Stewart Kill Someone Tonight?

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I'm seeing it on Twitter. On my phone and can't link. One of his fans says he ran over someone on a yellow and should be arrested for it.

[Reerun_KC]

Neckcar fans executed this guy yet?

[alnorth]

I'm not going to be outraged at this at all, mostly due to the huge amount of doubt that must be overcome before you can blame Tony Stewart, and partially because of the incredible Darwin award-winning stupidity of Kevin Ward.

Regarding the "swerve" as the damning smoking gun showing intent, as much as people who don't know about dirt track racing want to use that, it is not conclusive. Because of the way dirt track racing works, drivers often use the throttle as much as their steering wheel to turn their car, so there is a legitimate reason why he may have chosen to do that unrelated to any intent to scare anyone else.

Its obviously also possible that Stewart did something stupid in a fit of anger, but no one is ever going to be able to prove that in court given how difficult it would be to see him and that accelerating in that situation in that type of racing does not at all show intent. To the extent that he may have killed him, I go back to Ward's incredible stupidity and the large amount of doubt available, and I'm just going to presume Tony Stewart is innocent. I also do not give the slightest damn about NASCAR, so I have no rooting interest here.

The people bringing up involuntary manslaughter situations or criminal negligence are way off-base here, and this is not AT ALL a money thing or a big-name thing. The proof just isn't there. This is not a car running a red light. It is not at all clear that Tony Stewart was negligent here, since intent can't be proven and it is not reasonable to ever assume that a driver might be walking in the middle of the track. On top of all that you have assumption of the risk where all drivers agreed to participate in an incredibly dangerous activity where even quasi-intentionally wrecking someone else is not illegal. Unless you can prove intent, which they can't here, there's no way anyone gets convicted for this sort of thing unless they are represented by an incompetent dumbass of a lawyer.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by alnorth

I'm not going to be outraged at this at all, mostly due to the huge amount of doubt that must be overcome before you can blame Tony Stewart, and partially because of the incredible Darwin award-winning stupidity of Kevin Ward.

Regarding the "swerve" as the damning smoking gun showing intent, as much as people who don't know about dirt track racing want to use that, it is not conclusive. Because of the way dirt track racing works, drivers often use the throttle as much as their steering wheel to turn their car, so there is a legitimate reason why he may have chosen to do that unrelated to any intent to scare anyone else.

Its obviously also possible that Stewart did something stupid in a fit of anger, but no one is ever going to be able to prove that in court given how difficult it would be to see him and that accelerating in that situation in that type of racing does not at all show intent. To the extent that he may have killed him, I go back to Ward's incredible stupidity and the large amount of doubt available, and I'm just going to presume Tony Stewart is innocent. I also do not give the slightest damn about NASCAR, so I have no rooting interest here.

The people bringing up involuntary manslaughter situations or criminal negligence are way off-base here, and this is not AT ALL a money thing or a big-name thing. The proof just isn't there. This is not a car running a red light. It is not at all clear that Tony Stewart was negligent here, since intent can't be proven and it is not reasonable to ever assume that a driver might be walking in the middle of the track. On top of all that you have assumption of the risk where all drivers agreed to participate in an incredibly dangerous activity where even quasi-intentionally wrecking someone else is not illegal. Unless you can prove intent, which they can't here, there's no way anyone gets convicted for this sort of thing unless they are represented by an incompetent dumbass of a lawyer.

only issue I have with this post is that after a wreck is is somewhat reasonable to assume someone might be walking on the track.

safety workers, possible emts, the tow truck/push truck driver sometimes...

now I fully admit none of them would/should be going after the car.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

only issue I have with this post is that after a wreck is is somewhat reasonable to assume someone might be walking on the track.

safety workers, possible emts, the tow truck/push truck driver sometimes...

now I fully admit none of them would/should be going after the car.

The last line pretty much negates everything before it.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by alnorth

I'm not going to be outraged at this at all, mostly due to the huge amount of doubt that must be overcome before you can blame Tony Stewart, and partially because of the incredible Darwin award-winning stupidity of Kevin Ward.

Regarding the "swerve" as the damning smoking gun showing intent, as much as people who don't know about dirt track racing want to use that, it is not conclusive. Because of the way dirt track racing works, drivers often use the throttle as much as their steering wheel to turn their car, so there is a legitimate reason why he may have chosen to do that unrelated to any intent to scare anyone else.

Its obviously also possible that Stewart did something stupid in a fit of anger, but no one is ever going to be able to prove that in court given how difficult it would be to see him and that accelerating in that situation in that type of racing does not at all show intent. To the extent that he may have killed him, I go back to Ward's incredible stupidity and the large amount of doubt available, and I'm just going to presume Tony Stewart is innocent. I also do not give the slightest damn about NASCAR, so I have no rooting interest here.

The people bringing up involuntary manslaughter situations or criminal negligence are way off-base here, and this is not AT ALL a money thing or a big-name thing. The proof just isn't there. This is not a car running a red light. It is not at all clear that Tony Stewart was negligent here, since intent can't be proven and it is not reasonable to ever assume that a driver might be walking in the middle of the track. On top of all that you have assumption of the risk where all drivers agreed to participate in an incredibly dangerous activity where even quasi-intentionally wrecking someone else is not illegal. Unless you can prove intent, which they can't here, there's no way anyone gets convicted for this sort of thing unless they are represented by an incompetent dumbass of a lawyer.

I've heard the same thing about dirt track race cars, that is, throttle is used to steer the car and IF Stewart couldn't see Ward until the last second, and he wanted to avoid Ward, he may have punched the throttle to avoid hitting Ward head on. Anyhow, it's a tragedy any way you paint it and I hope it was completely accidental.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by RNR

If he is found to have malice it sure is. If it was an accident then it is a tragedy. It is a big ****ing difference. I would think you would grasp that~

And simply asking him might not be a good way to find out about the whole malice thing... While you have to ask him, you can't expect that's all they'll do given his history and some of what we saw and heard.

So I'm not saying he did mean to kill him, but simply asking him, "Yo Tony, did you mean to off the kid you wrecked?" isn't an awesome investigation.

But I'm biased, I've pretty-much always thought the ****er was a prick! I admited he had a LOT of talent (perhaps as much as anybody in NASCAR), but that donesn't mean he's not a whiny little egotistical prick either!

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

only issue I have with this post is that after a wreck is is somewhat reasonable to assume someone might be walking on the track.

safety workers, possible emts, the tow truck/push truck driver sometimes...

now I fully admit none of them would/should be going after the car.

I actually thought about this right after I posted. After another car wrecks, you probably are naturally curious about it and looking for it. That nudges things closer to intent, but its still not enough for me. The doubt thats swirling around this situation combined with Ward's immense and fatal dumbassery is not going to make me outraged at this.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

The last line pretty much negates everything before it.

no it doesn't. sometimes the safety workers get pretty damn close to the cars and its partially on the drivers to be watching for them. they usually have other things going on.

im just saying he should have known someone was/could be there and be looking for it.

at the tracks ive been to they usually even state that in the safety meetings.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

I've heard the same thing about dirt track race cars, that is, throttle is used to steer the car and IF Stewart couldn't see Ward until the last second, and he wanted to avoid Ward, he may have punched the throttle to avoid hitting Ward head on. Anyhow, it's a tragedy any way you paint it and I hope it was completely accidental.

I posted a video this morning showing a car during cautions. in no way did he use the throttle to turn at that point.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by alnorth

I actually thought about this right after I posted. After another car wrecks, you probably are naturally curious about it and looking for it. That nudges things closer to intent, but its still not enough for me. The doubt thats swirling around this situation combined with Ward's immense and fatal dumbassery is not going to make me outraged at this.

I can understand where you are coming from.

im not outraged either, and have no idea what the intent was. im just giving my opinion on what could have been differently and how this tragedy happened.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

I posted a video this morning showing a car during cautions. in no way did he use the throttle to turn at that point.

what is braking like on one of those race cars? I'm thinking that with the dirt and the smaller/thin front tires it can't be all that good?

[-King-]

Originally Posted by Bacon Cheeseburger

It's also the most recent you dumb mother****er.

Yeah. So it's the one most people know and talk about then. What you said reinforces what I posted.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

no it doesn't.

Of course it does. This is Logic 101, for crying out loud.

now I fully admit none of them would/should be going after the car.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

what is breaking like on one of those race cars? I'm thinking that with the dirt and the smaller/thin front tires it can't be all that good?

every one ive ever been stops pretty well. with no clutch the motor starts stopping you as soon as you let off the gas, and its the bigger rear tires at that point...

its like down shifting a manual to stop only x2 at least.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Neckcar fans executed this guy yet?

Why would they? They'll defend him to the death. If he gets charged,they'll probably donate to pay his legal fees.