If I'm Manning, I retire now.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I wouldn't wanna play anymore if it's gonna be at a level I'm not accustomed to playing. Much respect though. Great career. But father time is undefeated.

[Hootie]

and Brady lost his best friends

I never thought of that angle

man it's really tough to be a New England Patriot

Tom Brady has had to endure so much! Never has any weapons, losing best friends left and right, team hires homeless guys to block for him

dang

[In58men]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

and Brady lost his best friends

I never thought of that angle

man it's really tough to be a New England Patriot

Tom Brady has had to endure so much! Never has any weapons, losing best friends left and right, team hires homeless guys to block for him

dang

Brady > Manning

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by Inmem58

Brady > Manning

well, yeah

clearly

I never took the "losing best friends" angle into account.

[DaWolf]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

well, yeah

clearly

I never took the "losing best friends" angle into account.

It's a difference in philosophy. Obviously BB runs the show in New England, otherwise Welker and Mankins and such would still be there. Brady gets pissed at it, but still takes less money to allow it to happen because he trusts the front office to build the best team.

Manning, you'll notice they're always bringing in guys he knows, like Stokley and Tamme, going out and spending money on extra receivers, drafting receivers, etc. And he takes up a crap load of cap space, I don't see any discounts. I think Irsay let the cat out of the bag when he said he wanted to be able to build a great team rather than having to worry about Star Wars statistics.

It's all about your perspective. Manning is a great, great QB. I think Brady is better...

[Hootie]

Fair enough. I think it's a toss-up, honestly. Both cream of the crop.

As for this "Brady always takes less money" narrative.

Give me a break. He's Boston's Favorite Son.

He is going to be on the Patriots payroll for the rest of his life. He'll be cashing million dollar checks for as long as he lives as an "adviser" to the team.

Kiss a baby, here. High five Kraft in the owner's box during playoff games there.

Let's not try and pretend otherwise.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

No prob. If Brady had a team that wasn't just 52 guys off the street he'd probably be on a 500 game winning streak by now.

It's a good thing he takes those awesome pay cuts so that they can keep paying those homeless guys off of the street they surround him with so that he can keep losing playoff games and being able to use the same "not enough weapons" excuse for the last decade plus!

Brady just beat the Ravens yesterday, despite his defense playing awful and his OL getting its ass kicked.

Manning, on the other hand, was the main reason his team is going to be watching football next weekend, instead of playing it.


We've been watching this pattern since 2001.

Brady - 9 AFCCGs
Manning 9 One and dones


At this point, it's just a matter of rinsing and repeating.

[In58men]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

well, yeah

clearly

I never took the "losing best friends" angle into account.

Well maybe you should

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Brady just beat the Ravens yesterday, despite his defense playing awful and his OL getting its ass kicked.

Manning, on the other hand, was the main reason his team is going to be watching football next weekend, instead of playing it.


We've been watching this pattern since 2001. At this point, it's just a matter of rinsing and repeating.

So

In Manning's 9 "one and done's", you're suggesting he was the main reason his team lost?

Yet, over the last decade of Patriot playoff fails, Brady has always played great but the other 52 guys around him failed him.

This is the crap that makes me never let this debate die. It's ****ing ridiculous.

Manning had a QBR of 27.9 yesterday. We all saw how bad he was. He couldn't throw the damn ball. At all.

and despite not being able to throw the ball ...

his QBR of 27.9 was immensely higher than Brady who has posted two of the worst QBR games in postseason history ...

His 4 against Sanchez and his follow up 8 against Flacco. Maybe I reversed those, but it was 4 and 8 nonetheless.

So let's not pretend Brady hasn't had his fair share of bad playoff games.

It's nice that everyone forgets Manning beat Brady just last year in the AFCCG, though.

But I understand.

Not enough weapons!

Check.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I was talking about the Bears having one of the most elite DEF/ST combos in NFL history when Manning beat them for his one Super Bowl and then the Patriots fans came out and talked about how that defense wasn't even nearly as good as the Patriots dynasty defense of 2001-2004.

And then I was like, "oh ... so they won those Super Bowls because they had an all-time great defense?"

And then they were like, "uh ... no. Tom Brady."

It always makes a ton of sense to me that [the corpse of] Drew Bledsoe easily wins the AFC Championship Game @ Pittsburgh and then Tom goes on to win the Super Bowl the next week where the Pats defense held the Rams to a season low in points (years later controversy as to whether or not the Pats taped the Rams walkthrough illegally surfaced) ... throws 1 TD the entire postseason and benefits from a tuck rule no one had ever heard of against the Raiders ...

You are so full of wrong.

Bears defense was an all-time great in 2006? Yeah, no. Everyone knew that Pats/Indy was basically the Super Bowl that year.

Love the reference to the "controversy" when the SOURCE of that article later completely recanted the article and admitted he failed to verify, and that nobody had any evidence of it.

Pats won three Super Bowls with a very good or borderline great defense and a very efficient offense. By 2004, however, that offense was pretty damn outstanding as well, with the added threat of a run game (really the only serious run game Brady has ever had was '05-06).

Patriots were winning 7-0 when Brady left the game near the end of the first half. Bledsoe finished a nice drive Brady started right before halftime for a TD. Second half, Bledsoe was held without a TD, managing a measly 3 points of offense. Belichick wisely went back to Brady for the Super Bowl.

And the "corpse" of Bledsoe was 29 years old.

The more you talk Patriots history, the more wrong you are.

[Hootie]

so if Russell Wilson beats Tom Brady in the Super Bowl with a very good defense and a very efficient offense ... he's effectively exactly what Tom Brady was early in his career when he was actually winning ... minus the Spygate? Yes?

[the Talking Can]

Brady wins no matter how you look at it

http://heavy.com/sports/2015/01/tom-...d-nfl-history/

more superbowl appearances
more superbowl wins
more playoff appearances
more playoff wins (most by a QB in nfl history)
and Brady owns the regular season head to head with manning

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

Brady wins no matter how you look at it

http://heavy.com/sports/2015/01/tom-...d-nfl-history/

no, take out all the Spygate postseasons and let me know what happens

if Patriots fans want to pretend that Spygate was "nothing" and it gave them no competitive advantage ...

then they should be really upset that Roger Goodell destroyed all of the evidence.

Because, why destroy something if it's not incredibly damning?

Thus, I cannot talk about Tom Brady compared to Peyton Manning due to the immense amount of asterisks that accompany his early postseason success.

Blame Goodell. Blame Belichick. Blame America. I don't care. Destroyed evidence = tainted records.

[the Talking Can]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

no, take out all the Spygate postseasons and let me know what happens

if Patriots fans want to pretend that Spygate was "nothing" and it gave them no competitive advantage ...

then they should be really upset that Roger Goodell destroyed all of the evidence.

Because, why destroy something if it's not incredibly damning?

Thus, I cannot talk about Tom Brady compared to Peyton Manning due to the immense amount of asterisks that accompany his early postseason success.

Blame Goodell. Blame Belichick. Blame America. I don't care. Destroyed evidence = tainted records.

Brady wins no matter how you look at it

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

Manning had a QBR of 27.9 yesterday. We all saw how bad he was. He couldn't throw the damn ball. At all.

and despite not being able to throw the ball ...

his QBR of 27.9 was immensely higher than Brady who has posted two of the worst QBR games in postseason history ...

His 4 against Sanchez and his follow up 8 against Flacco. Maybe I reversed those, but it was 4 and 8 nonetheless.

So let's not pretend Brady hasn't had his fair share of bad playoff games.

The only two years Brady had one-and-dones, right?

And I don't know how QBR is calculated, but that second game (the one against the Jets), Brady was 29 for 45 (65% completion percentage) for 299 yards, 2 TDs and 1 INT. If that is a QBR of 8, then I think the QBR system is a bit screwed up to be honest.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

So

In Manning's 9 "one and done's", you're suggesting he was the main reason his team lost?

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm pointing out the reality of Manning v. Brady. Because I'm making the obviously correct choice in Brady, I've got an advantage here. Unlike you, I don't have to reach for pathetic shit like trying to bring QBR into it.

Brady - Winningest QB in NFL playoff history
Brady - Most conference championship games for a QB in NFL history

Manning - Losingest QB in NFL playoff history
Manning - Most One-And-Done playoff seasons for a QB in NFL history