Life Something of a moral dilemma - Page 5

Wallcrawler · 11-15-2014, 10:38 PM

So, Im in position to take over the reigns of the store Im currently working in. Its a very small staff, three of us managers and four part time employees.

Things go pretty well most of the time, despite some maturity issues with my direct supervisor. He's only 26, and as far as the business goes, he knows literally everything. Theres no task or problem or issue that he cannot readily resolve within a few minutes.

However, when it comes to actually leading a team of people, this guy is ASS. For real. Schedule changes with little to no notice, making people stay longer so that he can leave early, calling people in early so that he can go home, and being a dick in general about requests for time off even if they are the required two weeks in advance.

So we have a part timer who does a decent job, not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but the effort is there. He's decided that we are going to part ways with this person, but Im going to be the one to cut the ties.

Over the phone.

To me, this is complete bullshit. The guy being fired, we'll call him "Joe" is only being fired because he's called the boss out on multiple offenses of laziness, both just hanging out in back while on a shift, as well as the multiple counts of leaving early. Joe's broken plans repeatedly, without complaint, to come in early so Boss could leave early. No emergency, just tired of being there.

The first thing I tell Boss is that its chickenshit to fire someone over the phone. If Im going to take your ability to provide for your family from you, Im going to at least have the sac to look you in the face when I do it, and tell you why.

Boss gives zero ****s what I think, or what my view is. He's the boss, Im the subordinate, and my instructions are to call Joe in the morning and tell him that his services are no longer required.

If I refuse, Ill be documented for insubordination and my position to take over the business will take a substantial hit, because the third manager "Yes Man" is a bit spineless when it comes to taking a stand on anything, and simply does what he's told without question.

Now, I have no problem with Joe. Joe could be faster, and smarter, but Joe is always on time, always covers shifts when needed, and always works 100% of the time he is present. In short, dude's not perfect but he's doing everything he can at all times. That goes a long way in my book.

I don't really know what I should do. I mean I want to tell Boss to go **** himself and if he wants to be a chickenshit and fire Joe over the phone for being called out as a lazy **** from time to time, that's his problem and not mine.

On the other hand, I could lose my position to Yes Man and potentially screw myself out of a nice pay increase, perks, and better job security when Boss transfers in June.

Going over Boss' head is out of the question, as the District Manager and Boss are aquainted outside of work and have known each other for about 5 years.

So my choice is to call up Joe in the morning and tell him that he's fired and not be able to tell him exactly why he's being fired, or to tell my Boss to **** off and put my future at risk.

Its such a shit thing to do to someone, especially so close to Christmas.

Abba-Dabba · 11-16-2014, 12:26 AM

Are you contract security? Is it a retail store? In the mall?

**mdchiefsfan** · 11-16-2014, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubberSponge

You never have a person meet their accuser.

Also, this makes no ****ing sense. The person accusing knows exactly how much they are guilty for and are therefore to most qualified person to interview.

Say I watched on our camera system and saw them steal $1000+. I know what they took, how frequently they took it, and the means by which they took it, but since I am the one accusing them I shouldn't be the one interviewing?

Any rebuttal they have, I know the answer to. Any excuse they present, I can shut down. You bet your ass, with the training I have received, I am the most qualified person to interview associates who steal from my company.

I think your beliefs in the judicial system are just a bit off.

**mdchiefsfan** · 11-16-2014, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubberSponge

Are you contract security? Is it a retail store? In the mall?

You really have not one clue what loss prevention is. In all honesty, that speaks well for your character.

**mdchiefsfan** · 11-16-2014, 12:34 AM

Security is much different than loss prevention. My company decides that it is worth their investment to pay us to prevent loss to their products. I take back the lawyer comment from before.

**mdchiefsfan** · 11-16-2014, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubberSponge

So you are the accuser and the person who finds out how much and who else is involved? I see no conflict there at all.

Pleas elaborate on the conflict

Abba-Dabba · 11-16-2014, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan

Also, this makes no ****ing sense. The person accusing knows exactly how much they are guilty for and are therefore to most qualified person to interview.

Say I watched on our camera system and saw them steal $1000+. I know what they took, how frequently they took it, and the means by which they took it, but since I am the one accusing them I shouldn't be the one interviewing?

Any rebuttal they have, I know the answer to. Any excuse they present, I can shut down. You bet your ass, with the training I have received, I am the most qualified person to interview associates who steal from my company.

I think your beliefs in the judicial system are just a bit off.

No, you as the accuser should not be asking. You should report the CCTV incidents to your superior. Record the dates and times. I am sure it is backed up by a DVR somewhere. Pull the incidents from the DVR and burn them to a disc. But really, pulling them from the DVR and putting it on a disc should be handled by IT.

If it is a value that reaches felony standards of your state. You definitely should just not be asking any questions. Let your superiors decide if they want to notify law enforcement, termination, or a coming to jesus meeting with the supervisor.

Are you sure you are ready for management when you opportunity comes?

**mdchiefsfan** · 11-16-2014, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubberSponge

No, you as the accuser should not be asking. You should report the CCTV incidents to your superior. Record the dates and times. I am sure it is backed up by a DVR somewhere. Pull the incidents from the DVR and burn them to a disc. But really, pulling them from the DVR and putting it on a disc should be handled by IT.

If it is a value that reaches felony standards of your state. You definitely should just not be asking any questions. Let your superiors decide if they want to notify law enforcement, termination, or a coming to jesus meeting with the supervisor.

Are you sure you are ready for management when you opportunity comes?

I am the superior with access to the DVR. your and idiot!

Abba-Dabba · 11-16-2014, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan

Pleas elaborate on the conflict

Not to sound like an ass. But are you serious. You being the accuser interviewing the person you are accusing of doing something illegal doesn't raise any bit of conflict in your eyes?

**mdchiefsfan** · 11-16-2014, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubberSponge

Not to sound like an ass. But are you serious. You being the accuser interviewing the person you are accusing of doing something illegal doesn't raise any bit of conflict in your eyes?

Not one bit, please elaborate.

Abba-Dabba · 11-16-2014, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan

I am the superior with access to the DVR. your and idiot!

And do you have any of the files from the DVR copied to disc? And if you do why suddenly is all this unknown form of documentation coming to light?

So you are the guys superior and your boss is telling you to call him in the morning and fire him? And you have witnessed him on CCTV, backed up on DVR stealing $1000+ worth of merchandise? And you have a moral issue because you want to arrange a meeting with the guy to fire him? But you want to interview him.

BTW are you contract security?

**mdchiefsfan** · 11-16-2014, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubberSponge

And do you have any of the files from the DVR copied to disc? And if you do why suddenly is all this unknown form of documentation coming to light?

So you are the guys superior and your boss is telling you to call him in the morning and fire him? And you have witnessed him on CCTV, backed up on DVR stealing $1000+ worth of merchandise? And you have a moral issue because you want to arrange a meeting with the guy to fire him? But you want to interview him.

BTW are you contract security?

Wtf are you talking about?

Abba-Dabba · 11-16-2014, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan

Not one bit, please elaborate.

For one thing. If it is a firing. Just say we no longer need your services begining today. If they ask to discuss why. If you live in an at-will state, you don't have to discuss, ask, or answer any questions. Any footage from the DVR, as you say there is. Would be enough to squash any unemployment claims.

Sounds like you have a bit of emotion wrapped up in it already. And it even more sounds like you are trying to increase that emotion by meetings and interviews.

If it is a law enforcement issue. Law Enforcement doesn't care what you ask them. They just care what you saw on the DVR and a copy to disc. You being a loss prevention associate should know first and foremost you are not law enforcement. And any investigation of a crime that involves them. Involves them asking the questions. Not you.

Abba-Dabba · 11-16-2014, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan

Wtf are you talking about?

I talking about the posts you have made. I am trying to put the whole story down from your perspective. Because it isn't really making a whole damn bit of sense.

Abba-Dabba · 11-16-2014, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan

Also, this makes no ****ing sense. The person accusing knows exactly how much they are guilty for and are therefore to most qualified person to interview.

Say I watched on our camera system and saw them steal $1000+. I know what they took, how frequently they took it, and the means by which they took it, but since I am the one accusing them I shouldn't be the one interviewing?

Any rebuttal they have, I know the answer to. Any excuse they present, I can shut down. You bet your ass, with the training I have received, I am the most qualified person to interview associates who steal from my company.

I think your beliefs in the judicial system are just a bit off.

Are you contract security or proprietary? You still have not answered that question.

**mdchiefsfan** · 11-16-2014, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubberSponge

I talking about the posts you have made. I am trying to put the whole story down from your perspective. Because it isn't really making a whole damn bit of sense.

Get a job with a company that has a loss prevention dept, steal, and it will make a whole lot more sense.

11-15-2014, 10:38 PM
Wallcrawler How tall is this thing? Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ground 0 for enema of US. Casino cash: $4192912	Something of a moral dilemma So, Im in position to take over the reigns of the store Im currently working in. Its a very small staff, three of us managers and four part time employees. Things go pretty well most of the time, despite some maturity issues with my direct supervisor. He's only 26, and as far as the business goes, he knows literally everything. Theres no task or problem or issue that he cannot readily resolve within a few minutes. However, when it comes to actually leading a team of people, this guy is ASS. For real. Schedule changes with little to no notice, making people stay longer so that he can leave early, calling people in early so that he can go home, and being a dick in general about requests for time off even if they are the required two weeks in advance. So we have a part timer who does a decent job, not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but the effort is there. He's decided that we are going to part ways with this person, but Im going to be the one to cut the ties. Over the phone. To me, this is complete bullshit. The guy being fired, we'll call him "Joe" is only being fired because he's called the boss out on multiple offenses of laziness, both just hanging out in back while on a shift, as well as the multiple counts of leaving early. Joe's broken plans repeatedly, without complaint, to come in early so Boss could leave early. No emergency, just tired of being there. The first thing I tell Boss is that its chickenshit to fire someone over the phone. If Im going to take your ability to provide for your family from you, Im going to at least have the sac to look you in the face when I do it, and tell you why. Boss gives zero **s what I think, or what my view is. He's the boss, Im the subordinate, and my instructions are to call Joe in the morning and tell him that his services are no longer required. If I refuse, Ill be documented for insubordination and my position to take over the business will take a substantial hit, because the third manager "Yes Man" is a bit spineless when it comes to taking a stand on anything, and simply does what he's told without question. Now, I have no problem with Joe. Joe could be faster, and smarter, but Joe is always on time, always covers shifts when needed, and always works 100% of the time he is present. In short, dude's not perfect but he's doing everything he can at all times. That goes a long way in my book. I don't really know what I should do. I mean I want to tell Boss to go himself and if he wants to be a chickenshit and fire Joe over the phone for being called out as a lazy from time to time, that's his problem and not mine. On the other hand, I could lose my position to Yes Man and potentially screw myself out of a nice pay increase, perks, and better job security when Boss transfers in June. Going over Boss' head is out of the question, as the District Manager and Boss are aquainted outside of work and have known each other for about 5 years. So my choice is to call up Joe in the morning and tell him that he's fired and not be able to tell him exactly why he's being fired, or to tell my Boss to ** off and put my future at risk. Its such a shit thing to do to someone, especially so close to Christmas.
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11-16-2014, 12:26 AM	#61
Abba-Dabba MVP Join Date: May 2001 Casino cash: $4502970	Are you contract security? Is it a retail store? In the mall?
Posts: 18,145

11-16-2014, 12:34 AM	#64
mdchiefsfan Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Casino cash: $3333904	Security is much different than loss prevention. My company decides that it is worth their investment to pay us to prevent loss to their products. I take back the lawyer comment from before. __________________ 2017 Adopt-A-Chief:TYREEK HILL
Posts: 10,760