Chiefs Patrick Mahomes Might Force Chiefs Hand In 2017 - Page 3

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-21-2017, 12:10 PM

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/s...-hand-in-2017/

Patrick Mahomes might force Chiefs hand in 2017

The much-lamented quarterback class of 2017 is looking pretty good all of a sudden. Mitchell Trubisky is pushing the Bears decision-making process as much as John Fox can be pushed, Deshaun Watson is going to make Bill O'Brien at least think about his Week 1 status and, most interestingly, Patrick Mahomes has found himself in a perfect situation and is turning heads early.
Do you love Mahomes and consider him the most upside-riddled quarterback of this draft class? Congratulations! You are not actually a special snowflake. Everyone does. Mahomes has a cannon. It's unfair for Alex Smith, a genuinely nice human being who is an average-to-above average quarterback, that he finds himself once again squaring off against a young physical marvel on the depth chart. The good news for Smith is he looks really good this preseason. The bad news is so does Mahomes. Before we get to that, though, how much pressure can this guy actually put on Andy Reid? History tells us there is a good deal Mahomes could do to press Reid into playing him.

Reid waited a while to hand the starting job to the the first quarterback he ever drafted, Donovan McNabb, after taking the Syracuse product No. 2 overall in 1999. And when he finally did, in Week 10, the Eagles were out of the playoff race, sitting at 2-7. After letting McNab take his lumps in a relief role, it was time to see what the highly-drafted rookie had to offer as a full-time starter. McNabb got a rough welcome to the NFL when he made his NFL debut against the Bucs in Week 2, getting sacked six times by the eventual NFC Central champions (remember that this Bucs team was the basis for the eventual Super Bowl championship defense). In a fun twist of fate, the guy McNabb replaced as the starter was Doug Pederson, who is the current Eagles coach and former offensive coordinator for Alex Smith.

Andy Reid waited until Week 10 of Donovan McNabb's rookie season before naming him the starter. Two years later, Reid selected A.J. Feeley in the fifth round of the 2001 NFL Draft. That's not notable for Feeley being a guy who might have taken playing time, but he is another quarterback in a long list of Reid protégés who ended up being traded for a high draft pick. The point being, when Andy Reid latches onto a quarterback in the draft, people take notice. Reid went a long time between taking McNabb early and grabbing another quarterback. Again, notable. If Reid is spending high draft capital on a quarterback, there should be a belief he can win with said quarterback for a long time. He also probably thinks that quarterback is capable of winning and/or playing early. Patrick Mahomes was the 12th player drafted.

Kevin Kolb was the second quarterback taken by Reid with a high pick in his Eagles tenure. Kolb was taken out of Houston with a second-round pick in 2007 (the Eagles actually traded down out of the first round with the Cowboys who took Anthony Spencer). He didn't replace McNabb immediately, but Kolb is also a clear-cut historical marker in terms of Reid making sure he has quarterback insurance. McNabb was battling injuries during that stretch, coming off the Super Bowl loss to the Patriots, and would be gone after 2009.

That year featured a storm of controversy, too, with Michael Vick and Kolb nipping on McNabb's heels for playing time. Ultimately it was McNabb's team, but with Vick and Kolb on the roster, there were plenty of people chirping to see the other options. The backup quarterback is always the most popular guy in town, and that's been the case for Andy Reid's teams in the past.
Vick and Kolb ran the team in 2010 after McNabb left and then Kolb was traded. The "Dream Team" of 2011 followed, but it wouldn't be long before a draft pick caused trouble on the roster again. Nick Foles, taken in the third round of the 2012 NFL Draft, was firmly entrenched in Reid-style controversy within his first year. Foles started six games for Reid in 2012 and that led to serious concern about who should start in 2013, when Foles went 8-2 as a starter under Chip Kelly.

Ultimately what you see from Reid is a history of high draft picks playing early. McNabb was under center three quarters of the way through the season in his rookie year. Kolb was held at bay, but McNabb aged better than Reid expected and it still ended in McNabb being dealt to the Redskins. The Michael Vick thing was a different animal. Er, situation. Foles played quickly, starting multiple games his first year. Which brings us back to Mahomes, who has looked just absolutely tools-y this preseason. Mahomes, who played in Kliff Kingsbury's system at Texas Tech, is going to require some refinement. But he has everything you would want to see in a quarterback from a physical perspective. If you buy into Reid developing quarterbacks -- and why wouldn't you? -- Mahomes is a fascinating prospect. He has underrated speed and is strong enough too take hits and still make throws.

Mahomes is faster and stronger than just about everyone on the field. As a quarterback that is an undeniable advantage. He can shrug off blitzers but he can also deftly evade people coming at him on the rush. And if he needs to, Mahomes can whip a quick throw on short notice. All that is well and good, but the downside of Mahomes is he's not harnessed right now either. He can be, and it's easy to see Reid figuring out how. Mahomes might be a stronger, slightly slower, more twitchy version of McNabb with a better arm. Alex Smith is on notice, although he knew that coming into the preseason. The guess here, two weeks into the season, is that Smith won't lose his job as long as the Chiefs are winning.

If Kansas City falters or the offense looks flat, don't be surprised to see Mahomes. Reid's history makes it clear he is willing to run with a young talent he trusted in the draft. He believes in his quarterback development almost as much as he believes in his talent evaluation. Maybe more.

ARROW2 · 08-21-2017, 01:44 PM

I'm tired of this "sit" bullshit. What the **** is he supposed to learn from the sidelines? What did Stanzi, Murray, Bray, Hogan, etc. learn behind Smith? Where are they now? What are they going to learn? How to play safe and let the D and special teams win it for you? We were 12-4 and how many of those games did Smith WIN for us? You are telling me Mahomes can't do that and more? We will NEVER be great or get RESPECT as long as Alex is the QB. I'm tired of it.

Passepartout · 08-21-2017, 01:49 PM

Think Smith will start for week 1 there. As it is 2017 and Mahomes will be under center for 2018.

**HemiEd** · 08-21-2017, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

12th player taken in the draft, eh?

Were there a couple secret picks?

**notorious** · 08-21-2017, 01:54 PM

I hope Alex kills it and we get a 1st or 2nd rounder for him next offseason. That would be the perfect scenario.

**ptlyon** · 08-21-2017, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious

I hope Alex kills it and we get a 1st or 2nd rounder for him next offseason. That would be the perfect scenario.

It would be but unlikely to happen. Everyone knows he's hitting the bricks next year due to the cap.

BryanBusby · 08-21-2017, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptlyon

It would be but unlikely to happen. Everyone knows he's hitting the bricks next year due to the cap.

Yep. I don't think people realize that if they get a return on Alex, he would need to be moved now.

They won't have leverage as teams think they are going to hit this jackpot in the draft and everyone will know we have to get rid of Alex.

ARROW2 · 08-21-2017, 01:59 PM

Man, my head is gonna explode. Alex has NOT changes folks. You will see

**notorious** · 08-21-2017, 02:02 PM

We know Arrow, just read any other thread

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-21-2017, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARROW2

I'm tired of this "sit" bullshit. What the **** is he supposed to learn from the sidelines? What did Stanzi, Murray, Bray, Hogan, etc. learn behind Smith? Where are they now? What are they going to learn? How to play safe and let the D and special teams win it for you? We were 12-4 and how many of those games did Smith WIN for us? You are telling me Mahomes can't do that and more? We will NEVER be great or get RESPECT as long as Alex is the QB. I'm tired of it.

**New World Order** · 08-21-2017, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARROW2

I'm tired of this "sit" bullshit. What the **** is he supposed to learn from the sidelines? What did Stanzi, Murray, Bray, Hogan, etc. learn behind Smith? Where are they now? What are they going to learn? How to play safe and let the D and special teams win it for you? We were 12-4 and how many of those games did Smith WIN for us? You are telling me Mahomes can't do that and more? We will NEVER be great or get RESPECT as long as Alex is the QB. I'm tired of it.

I remember an old interview with Peyton Manning where he said, "you're not going to learn much if you don't play"

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-21-2017, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

Yep. I don't think people realize that if they get a return on Alex, he would need to be moved now.

They won't have leverage as teams think they are going to hit this jackpot in the draft and everyone will know we have to get rid of Alex.

I disagree.

The Chiefs can get plenty of cap relief next year without cutting Smith.

Hold on to him until the final week of the preseason, at the latest.

Teams will make offers.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-21-2017, 02:07 PM

Additionally, the Chiefs won't (at least at this point in time) have the cap burden of a first round pick, which also helps their cap situation.

BryanBusby · 08-21-2017, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I disagree.

The Chiefs can get plenty of cap relief next year without cutting Smith.

Hold on to him until the final week of the preseason, at the latest.

Teams will make offers.

They will have 44 pending FA's and about 4.5 million in space to work with, if they carry every bit of space they have now (they won't).

Cutting Hali and DJ alone won't be enough.

RippedmyFlesh · 08-21-2017, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I disagree.

The Chiefs can get plenty of cap relief next year without cutting Smith.

Hold on to him until the final week of the preseason, at the latest.

Teams will make offers.

I think if they cut Smith they will do it early to Smith's benefit to give him
max time to go somewhere. There is no way I see them not cutting Smith.
No way Smith would want to be a backup anywhere and he should start at least 3 or 4 places.
I am no cap wizard but I can't see a way to save the money we get by cutting Smith elsewhere.

ChiefsCountry · 08-21-2017, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptlyon

It would be but unlikely to happen. Everyone knows he's hitting the bricks next year due to the cap.

Same thing was happening to him in 2013 and we poined up. Surely some team will be as dumb as us.

08-21-2017, 12:10 PM
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	Patrick Mahomes Might Force Chiefs Hand In 2017 https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/s...-hand-in-2017/ Patrick Mahomes might force Chiefs hand in 2017 The much-lamented quarterback class of 2017 is looking pretty good all of a sudden. Mitchell Trubisky is pushing the Bears decision-making process as much as John Fox can be pushed, Deshaun Watson is going to make Bill O'Brien at least think about his Week 1 status and, most interestingly, Patrick Mahomes has found himself in a perfect situation and is turning heads early. Do you love Mahomes and consider him the most upside-riddled quarterback of this draft class? Congratulations! You are not actually a special snowflake. Everyone does. Mahomes has a cannon. It's unfair for Alex Smith, a genuinely nice human being who is an average-to-above average quarterback, that he finds himself once again squaring off against a young physical marvel on the depth chart. The good news for Smith is he looks really good this preseason. The bad news is so does Mahomes. Before we get to that, though, how much pressure can this guy actually put on Andy Reid? History tells us there is a good deal Mahomes could do to press Reid into playing him. Reid waited a while to hand the starting job to the the first quarterback he ever drafted, Donovan McNabb, after taking the Syracuse product No. 2 overall in 1999. And when he finally did, in Week 10, the Eagles were out of the playoff race, sitting at 2-7. After letting McNab take his lumps in a relief role, it was time to see what the highly-drafted rookie had to offer as a full-time starter. McNabb got a rough welcome to the NFL when he made his NFL debut against the Bucs in Week 2, getting sacked six times by the eventual NFC Central champions (remember that this Bucs team was the basis for the eventual Super Bowl championship defense). In a fun twist of fate, the guy McNabb replaced as the starter was Doug Pederson, who is the current Eagles coach and former offensive coordinator for Alex Smith. Andy Reid waited until Week 10 of Donovan McNabb's rookie season before naming him the starter. Two years later, Reid selected A.J. Feeley in the fifth round of the 2001 NFL Draft. That's not notable for Feeley being a guy who might have taken playing time, but he is another quarterback in a long list of Reid protégés who ended up being traded for a high draft pick. The point being, when Andy Reid latches onto a quarterback in the draft, people take notice. Reid went a long time between taking McNabb early and grabbing another quarterback. Again, notable. If Reid is spending high draft capital on a quarterback, there should be a belief he can win with said quarterback for a long time. He also probably thinks that quarterback is capable of winning and/or playing early. Patrick Mahomes was the 12th player drafted. Kevin Kolb was the second quarterback taken by Reid with a high pick in his Eagles tenure. Kolb was taken out of Houston with a second-round pick in 2007 (the Eagles actually traded down out of the first round with the Cowboys who took Anthony Spencer). He didn't replace McNabb immediately, but Kolb is also a clear-cut historical marker in terms of Reid making sure he has quarterback insurance. McNabb was battling injuries during that stretch, coming off the Super Bowl loss to the Patriots, and would be gone after 2009. That year featured a storm of controversy, too, with Michael Vick and Kolb nipping on McNabb's heels for playing time. Ultimately it was McNabb's team, but with Vick and Kolb on the roster, there were plenty of people chirping to see the other options. The backup quarterback is always the most popular guy in town, and that's been the case for Andy Reid's teams in the past. Vick and Kolb ran the team in 2010 after McNabb left and then Kolb was traded. The "Dream Team" of 2011 followed, but it wouldn't be long before a draft pick caused trouble on the roster again. Nick Foles, taken in the third round of the 2012 NFL Draft, was firmly entrenched in Reid-style controversy within his first year. Foles started six games for Reid in 2012 and that led to serious concern about who should start in 2013, when Foles went 8-2 as a starter under Chip Kelly. Ultimately what you see from Reid is a history of high draft picks playing early. McNabb was under center three quarters of the way through the season in his rookie year. Kolb was held at bay, but McNabb aged better than Reid expected and it still ended in McNabb being dealt to the Redskins. The Michael Vick thing was a different animal. Er, situation. Foles played quickly, starting multiple games his first year. Which brings us back to Mahomes, who has looked just absolutely tools-y this preseason. Mahomes, who played in Kliff Kingsbury's system at Texas Tech, is going to require some refinement. But he has everything you would want to see in a quarterback from a physical perspective. If you buy into Reid developing quarterbacks -- and why wouldn't you? -- Mahomes is a fascinating prospect. He has underrated speed and is strong enough too take hits and still make throws. Mahomes is faster and stronger than just about everyone on the field. As a quarterback that is an undeniable advantage. He can shrug off blitzers but he can also deftly evade people coming at him on the rush. And if he needs to, Mahomes can whip a quick throw on short notice. All that is well and good, but the downside of Mahomes is he's not harnessed right now either. He can be, and it's easy to see Reid figuring out how. Mahomes might be a stronger, slightly slower, more twitchy version of McNabb with a better arm. Alex Smith is on notice, although he knew that coming into the preseason. The guess here, two weeks into the season, is that Smith won't lose his job as long as the Chiefs are winning. If Kansas City falters or the offense looks flat, don't be surprised to see Mahomes. Reid's history makes it clear he is willing to run with a young talent he trusted in the draft. He believes in his quarterback development almost as much as he believes in his talent evaluation. Maybe more.
Posts: 88,960

08-21-2017, 01:44 PM	#31
ARROW2 MVP Join Date: Mar 2002 Casino cash: $9534329	I'm tired of this "sit" bullshit. What the **** is he supposed to learn from the sidelines? What did Stanzi, Murray, Bray, Hogan, etc. learn behind Smith? Where are they now? What are they going to learn? How to play safe and let the D and special teams win it for you? We were 12-4 and how many of those games did Smith WIN for us? You are telling me Mahomes can't do that and more? We will NEVER be great or get RESPECT as long as Alex is the QB. I'm tired of it.
Posts: 5,981

08-21-2017, 01:49 PM	#32
Passepartout May Day and Spring 2024! Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Seymour TN Casino cash: $9855239	Think Smith will start for week 1 there. As it is 2017 and Mahomes will be under center for 2018. __________________ *May Day and May Fever!*
Posts: 386

08-21-2017, 01:54 PM	#34
notorious Supporter Join Date: May 2005 Location: Who knows? Casino cash: $2925884	I hope Alex kills it and we get a 1st or 2nd rounder for him next offseason. That would be the perfect scenario.
Posts: 83,365

08-21-2017, 01:59 PM	#37
ARROW2 MVP Join Date: Mar 2002 Casino cash: $9534329	Man, my head is gonna explode. Alex has NOT changes folks. You will see
Posts: 5,981

08-21-2017, 02:02 PM	#38
notorious Supporter Join Date: May 2005 Location: Who knows? Casino cash: $2925884	We know Arrow, just read any other thread
Posts: 83,365

08-21-2017, 02:07 PM	#42
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	Additionally, the Chiefs won't (at least at this point in time) have the cap burden of a first round pick, which also helps their cap situation.
Posts: 88,960