Something of a moral dilemma

[Wallcrawler]

So, Im in position to take over the reigns of the store Im currently working in. Its a very small staff, three of us managers and four part time employees.

Things go pretty well most of the time, despite some maturity issues with my direct supervisor. He's only 26, and as far as the business goes, he knows literally everything. Theres no task or problem or issue that he cannot readily resolve within a few minutes.

However, when it comes to actually leading a team of people, this guy is ASS. For real. Schedule changes with little to no notice, making people stay longer so that he can leave early, calling people in early so that he can go home, and being a dick in general about requests for time off even if they are the required two weeks in advance.

So we have a part timer who does a decent job, not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but the effort is there. He's decided that we are going to part ways with this person, but Im going to be the one to cut the ties.

Over the phone.

To me, this is complete bullshit. The guy being fired, we'll call him "Joe" is only being fired because he's called the boss out on multiple offenses of laziness, both just hanging out in back while on a shift, as well as the multiple counts of leaving early. Joe's broken plans repeatedly, without complaint, to come in early so Boss could leave early. No emergency, just tired of being there.

The first thing I tell Boss is that its chickenshit to fire someone over the phone. If Im going to take your ability to provide for your family from you, Im going to at least have the sac to look you in the face when I do it, and tell you why.

Boss gives zero ****s what I think, or what my view is. He's the boss, Im the subordinate, and my instructions are to call Joe in the morning and tell him that his services are no longer required.

If I refuse, Ill be documented for insubordination and my position to take over the business will take a substantial hit, because the third manager "Yes Man" is a bit spineless when it comes to taking a stand on anything, and simply does what he's told without question.

Now, I have no problem with Joe. Joe could be faster, and smarter, but Joe is always on time, always covers shifts when needed, and always works 100% of the time he is present. In short, dude's not perfect but he's doing everything he can at all times. That goes a long way in my book.

I don't really know what I should do. I mean I want to tell Boss to go **** himself and if he wants to be a chickenshit and fire Joe over the phone for being called out as a lazy **** from time to time, that's his problem and not mine.

On the other hand, I could lose my position to Yes Man and potentially screw myself out of a nice pay increase, perks, and better job security when Boss transfers in June.


Going over Boss' head is out of the question, as the District Manager and Boss are aquainted outside of work and have known each other for about 5 years.

So my choice is to call up Joe in the morning and tell him that he's fired and not be able to tell him exactly why he's being fired, or to tell my Boss to **** off and put my future at risk.

Its such a shit thing to do to someone, especially so close to Christmas.

[Katipan]

It's a shit thing to do but the man is going to get fired one way or another. No reason for you to ruin your Christmas too.

[TimBone]

The theory of Deontology would tell you to stand up for the kid. It's the right thing to do.

However, Katipan makes a good point. It doesn't seem like it's gonna do much good even if you try.

[PHOG]

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

So, Im in position to take over the reigns of the store Im currently working in. Its a very small staff, three of us managers and four part time employees.

Things go pretty well most of the time, despite some maturity issues with my direct supervisor. He's only 26, and as far as the business goes, he knows literally everything. Theres no task or problem or issue that he cannot readily resolve within a few minutes.

However, when it comes to actually leading a team of people, this guy is ASS. For real. Schedule changes with little to no notice, making people stay longer so that he can leave early, calling people in early so that he can go home, and being a dick in general about requests for time off even if they are the required two weeks in advance.

So we have a part timer who does a decent job, not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but the effort is there. He's decided that we are going to part ways with this person, but Im going to be the one to cut the ties.

Over the phone.

To me, this is complete bullshit. The guy being fired, we'll call him "Joe" is only being fired because he's called the boss out on multiple offenses of laziness, both just hanging out in back while on a shift, as well as the multiple counts of leaving early. Joe's broken plans repeatedly, without complaint, to come in early so Boss could leave early. No emergency, just tired of being there.

The first thing I tell Boss is that its chickenshit to fire someone over the phone. If Im going to take your ability to provide for your family from you, Im going to at least have the sac to look you in the face when I do it, and tell you why.

Boss gives zero ****s what I think, or what my view is. He's the boss, Im the subordinate, and my instructions are to call Joe in the morning and tell him that his services are no longer required.

If I refuse, Ill be documented for insubordination and my position to take over the business will take a substantial hit, because the third manager "Yes Man" is a bit spineless when it comes to taking a stand on anything, and simply does what he's told without question.

Now, I have no problem with Joe. Joe could be faster, and smarter, but Joe is always on time, always covers shifts when needed, and always works 100% of the time he is present. In short, dude's not perfect but he's doing everything he can at all times. That goes a long way in my book.

I don't really know what I should do. I mean I want to tell Boss to go **** himself and if he wants to be a chickenshit and fire Joe over the phone for being called out as a lazy **** from time to time, that's his problem and not mine.

On the other hand, I could lose my position to Yes Man and potentially screw myself out of a nice pay increase, perks, and better job security when Boss transfers in June.


Going over Boss' head is out of the question, as the District Manager and Boss are aquainted outside of work and have known each other for about 5 years.

So my choice is to call up Joe in the morning and tell him that he's fired and not be able to tell him exactly why he's being fired, or to tell my Boss to **** off and put my future at risk.

Its such a shit thing to do to someone, especially so close to Christmas.

3 Managers and 4 part time employees? You should know the problem.

[TribalElder]

Sounds like the young boss is a punk bitch

Kick his ass for him

[mdchiefsfan]

The question lies here: do you really want to work with someone like this? I don't know what kind of job it is or how the benefits weigh out, but if this guy is that much of a tool I would happily take the documentation while looking for a different job. It's only a matter of time until he views you as a threat and plots your demise as well.

That is your option, or you could take this matter above his head.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

TL;DR

PIIHB

[Abba-Dabba]

I always try to put myself in the person who is getting fired shoes. So, I have no problem with firing people over the phone. I would be pissed to be called in, myself knowing the whole drive something isn't right. Why make me waste the trip... and gas? I coulda been out looking for a job! And I hate the mid day and end of the day firings. You mean you wanted me to work all day for you and then fire me? **** You! I coulda been out looking for a job!

Worst of them all is the firings by letter. I have seen them done but never done myself.

Firing any one is not a thing of pleasure anyway you go about it. Sometimes there isn't wrong way or right way to do it. Just that it has to be done

[Wallcrawler]

Originally Posted by PHOG

3 Managers and 4 part time employees? You should know the problem.

The problem is a lazy, entitled shitheel that inherited his position and didn't have to interview for it. He doesn't like being called out on not doing his job when he's supposed to be setting the example.

He's always late, which is funny because he makes the ****ing schedule. Always at least ten minutes late and leaving one to two hours early. Multiple trips outside for smoke breaks that range from ten to twenty minutes leaving a single person alone inside while this is going on.

It gets ****ing old.

When he applies himself, the guy is a ****ing whirlwind of productivity. I mean SHIT GETS DONE. No bullshit. We had a corporate visit recently and dude worked a 13 hour shift and did about a week's worth of projects in one double shift.

I tried to explain that if he would simply apply a LITTLE of that every time he was in during the week, it wouldn't have to be like that all at once. But whatever. Its his barbecue.

For now.

Cutting someone loose because you cant handle the truth about your laziness is ****ing bullshit.

Getting someone else to cut that person loose is some cowardly shit.

[mdchiefsfan]

Originally Posted by RubberSponge

I always try to put myself in the person who is getting fired shoes. So, I have no problem with firing people over the phone. I would be pissed to be called in, myself knowing the whole drive something isn't right. Why make me waste the trip... and gas? I coulda been out looking for a job! And I hate the mid day and end of the day firings. You mean you wanted me to work all day for you and then fire me? **** You! I coulda been out looking for a job!

Worst of them all is the firings by letter. I have seen them done but never done myself.

Firing any one is not a thing of pleasure anyway you go about it. Sometimes there isn't wrong way or right way to do it. Just that it has to be done

Depends if he's getting paid hourly. You fire him over the phone, he got no benefits to listening to his means of income crumble. When I go to interview associates that have stolen from my company, I ensure that they are paid for the time of the interview and think it is more worth while to look them in the eyes.

[Wallcrawler]

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan

The question lies here: do you really want to work with someone like this? I don't know what kind of job it is or how the benefits weigh out, but if this guy is that much of a tool I would happily take the documentation while looking for a different job. It's only a matter of time until he views you as a threat and plots your demise as well.

That is your option, or you could take this matter above his head.

He transfers in June, maybe earlier. I take over when that happens. So I can do this shit and feel like a complete scumbag, or I can say no, ride it out and see what happens.

[mdchiefsfan]

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

The problem is a lazy, entitled shitheel that inherited his position and didn't have to interview for it. He doesn't like being called out on not doing his job when he's supposed to be setting the example.

He's always late, which is funny because he makes the ****ing schedule. Always at least ten minutes late and leaving one to two hours early. Multiple trips outside for smoke breaks that range from ten to twenty minutes leaving a single person alone inside while this is going on.

It gets ****ing old.

When he applies himself, the guy is a ****ing whirlwind of productivity. I mean SHIT GETS DONE. No bullshit. We had a corporate visit recently and dude worked a 13 hour shift and did about a week's worth of projects in one double shift.

I tried to explain that if he would simply apply a LITTLE of that every time he was in during the week, it wouldn't have to be like that all at once. But whatever. Its his barbecue.

For now.

Cutting someone loose because you cant handle the truth about your laziness is ****ing bullshit.

Getting someone else to cut that person loose is some cowardly shit.

Is there an HR department in your company? Most places don't allow solitary power like you're describing.

[mdchiefsfan]

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

He transfers in June, maybe earlier. I take over when that happens. So I can do this shit and feel like a complete scumbag, or I can say no, ride it out and see what happens.

Well I get the morality of the situation, but this son of a bitch shouldn't be allowed to strike fear in his employees and get off without reprisal. There has to be another means to report the lack of managerial skills of this guy.

[Lex Luthor]

Originally Posted by Katipan

It's a shit thing to do but the man is going to get fired one way or another. No reason for you to ruin your Christmas too.

Katipan's answer makes sense. The employee is going to be fired, and there is nothing you can do to prevent it. I'd be looking for a long-term exit strategy, but your hands are tied at the moment.

[mdchiefsfan]

Originally Posted by Brainiac

Katipan's answer makes sense. The employee is going to be fired, and there is nothing you can do to prevent it. I'd be looking for a long-term exit strategy, but your hands are tied at the moment.

That's bullshit. The man shouldn't be fired for speaking honestly. Heaven forbid if someone takes what most companies offer, which is an anonymous hotline to HR for just these types of situations.