***2012 NHL Offseason Thread***

[Bearcat]

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/85...-step-backward

NHL unhappy with union response
Updated: October 18, 2012, 6:03 PM ET
ESPN.com news services

TORONTO -- NHL commissioner Gary Bettman received three counterproposals from the players' association on Thursday and left the negotiating table "thoroughly disappointed."

No new talks have been scheduled, and the possibility of a full hockey regular season is quickly shrinking.

"Today is not a good day," NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr said.

Thursday's meetings, according to Bettman, were a "step backward," while Fehr insists the NHL was only willing to work off its offer from Tuesday, rejecting the players' three counteroffers.

The union offered multiple options in response to the NHL's offer on Tuesday that called for an 82-game season and a 50-50 split of hockey-related revenues between owners and players.

Said Blues captain David Backes in a text to ESPN.com: "We feel our newest proposal took a great step toward getting a deal done. It's too bad the owners don't feel that way and I fear that we may miss an extended amount of time now."

Bettman said that proposal was the "best that we could do" and added that the two sides are still far apart.

"None of the three variations of player share that they gave us even began to approach 50-50, either at all or for some long period of time," Bettman said.

"It's clear we're not speaking the same language."

Fehr described the union's three offers, saying that depending on revenue growth, the NHLPA's first proposal does go down to 50 percent eventually; proposal No. 2 gets owners down to 50 percent with "only 5 percent growth," while No. 3 saw the players go 50-50, as long as the owners promised to honor all contracts that were signed by players.

Bettman said he was still hopeful the league can have a full season, but time is running out to make that happen.

"I am concerned based on the proposal that was made today that things are not progressing," he said. "To the contrary, I view the proposal made by the players' association in many ways a step backward."

Bettman said Tuesday the sides would have to reach an agreement by Oct. 25 for a full season to be played.

NHL players showed up in force Thursday as the union responded to the league's proposal.

“ We feel our newest proposal took a great step toward getting a deal done. It's too bad the owners don't feel that way and I fear that we may miss an extended amount of time now.
” -- Blue captain David Backes

Among the 18 players at the talks were Sidney Crosby, Jarome Iginla, Jonathan Toews and Eric Staal. The scene looked similar to one in August when the union made its first proposal.

"Simply put, the owners' new proposal, while not quite as draconian as their previous proposals, still represents enormous reductions in player salaries and individual contracting rights," Fehr said in response to the league's offer. "As you will see, at the 5 percent industry growth rate the owners predict, the salary reduction over six years exceeds $1.6 billion.

"What do the owners offer in return?"

The NHLPA scheduled a 5 p.m. ET conference call again with its negotiating committee and executive board.

Crosby called Thursday's offers "significant."

"That follows a pattern we've displayed coming into this negotiation. We're willing to negotiate," he said. "It's pretty disappointing we're at this point."

The lockout -- the third of the Bettman era -- began Sept. 16, and the league canceled regular-season games through Oct. 24. Bettman, in announcing the new proposal, called it "a fair offer for a long-term deal" and "one that we hope gets a positive reaction."

But the clock is ticking. There is only one week to strike a deal for the season to start by Nov. 2, three weeks behind schedule. If those deadlines are met, teams would be able to hold makeshift training camps for one week, then play one extra game every five weeks to make up for the lost time and complete a full slate.

In releasing the details, the NHL confirmed the offer is for six years with a mutual option for a seventh. The plan includes a 50-50 split in hockey-related revenue, which is a step forward. The NHL had proposed in July to cut the percentage of HRR from 57 percent to 43, then increased its offer in September to about 47.

Management included a provision to ensure players receive all money promised in existing contracts, but the union is concerned with what management termed the "make-whole provision." If the players' share falls short of their $1.883 billion in 2011-12, the players would be paid up to $149 million of deferred compensation in the first year of a new deal and up to $62 million in the second. However, the union believes that money would be counted against the players' share in later years.

The latest league proposal also includes:

• A listed salary cap of $59.9 million for the 2012-13 season, with a provision each team could spend up to $70.2 million during a transition season.

• Changing eligibility for unrestricted free agency from age 27 or seven years of service to age 28 or eight years of service, down from 10 years of service in the league's earlier proposal.

• Increasing eligibility for salary arbitration from four years to five years.

• Including all years of existing contracts beyond five years against a team's cap, regardless of where a player is playing. If a player is traded and retires or stops playing, the applicable cap charge would be applied against the team that originally signed the contact.

• The reduction of entry-level contracts to two years.

• A term limit of five years on any future contracts and a stipulation that the average annual value can vary only up to 5 percent. This mechanism is designed to eliminate long-term, back-loaded contracts. The NHL wants to prohibit lengthy deals, such as the $98 million, 13-year contracts Minnesota agreed to in July with forward Zach Parise and defenseman Ryan Suter.

• The elimination of re-entry waivers.

• Increasing the annual revenue-sharing pool by 33 percent to $200 million, assuming annual league revenue of $3.033 billion, with a provision that half the pool be funded by the 10 teams with the highest gross revenue. A cutout against clubs in large media markets, such as Anaheim, New Jersey and the New York Islanders, and clawbacks against not selling enough tickets would be eliminated. A new revenue-sharing committee, which would include NHLPA representation, would have input to determine distribution.

Among the items not addressed in the league's public detailing of its offer were realignment, drug testing and the NHL's participation in the 2014 Olympics in Sochi, Russia.

Information from ESPN.com's Pierre LeBrun, ESPNNewYork.com's Katie Strang and The Associated Press was used in this report.

[DaFace]

Not surprising really, but disappointing. Idiots.

That's OK, I'm headed out tomorrow night for the inaugural Denver Cutthroats game. Here's hoping it's good entertainment if nothing else.

[Bearcat]

Looks like the counter offers are all 50/50 with conditions, which sounds reasonable for taking a 7% hit.

Not a big fan of the CHL as far as the quality of hockey, but the fights can be entertaining.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Looks like the counter offers are all 50/50 with conditions, which sounds reasonable for taking a 7% hit.

Not a big fan of the CHL as far as the quality of hockey, but the fights can be entertaining.

Yeah, I agree that the counter offers don't seem that bad given the salary decrease, but who knows anymore.

As for the CHL, my hope is that the atmosphere is fun more than anything. Tix start at like $12, so it's an easy thing to get into going frequently if it's fun. And at least they're now an Avs affiliate, so there's a remote chance I might eventually see one of the guys play in the big league.

Oh, and Kyle Quincy is playing for them during the lockout. That should be interesting to watch. Hope he doesn't get his head knocked off.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by DaFace

Yeah, I agree that the counter offers don't seem that bad given the salary decrease, but who knows anymore.

As for the CHL, my hope is that the atmosphere is fun more than anything. Tix start at like $12, so it's an easy thing to get into going frequently if it's fun. And at least they're now an Avs affiliate, so there's a remote chance I might eventually see one of the guys play in the big league.

Oh, and Kyle Quincy is playing for them during the lockout. That should be interesting to watch. Hope he doesn't get his head knocked off.

The affiliate thing is cool... the MO Mavs, who are also in the CHL, are affiliates with the Chicago Wolves, and they're affiliated with the Canucks. Boo.

When I went to a MO Mavs game a couple of years ago, the Mavs turned the opening faceoff win into a 2 on 0, and the pass across the crease went off the guy's stick and they didn't even get a shot on net. But, it's in a small arena that only fits like 5-6,000 people, so it was a good atmosphere. And like you said, it's cheap.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

The affiliate thing is cool... the MO Mavs, who are also in the CHL, are affiliates with the Chicago Wolves, and they're affiliated with the Canucks. Boo.

When I went to a MO Mavs game a couple of years ago, the Mavs turned the opening faceoff win into a 2 on 0, and the pass across the crease went off the guy's stick and they didn't even get a shot on net. But, it's in a small arena that only fits like 5-6,000 people, so it was a good atmosphere. And like you said, it's cheap.

Yeah, that's all I'm hoping for. I went to a couple CHL games back when the Rocky Mountain Rage were around, so I have a pretty good idea of what to expect. But still, hockey is hockey.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Greedy ****s

[Discuss Thrower]

Perhaps I'm naive, but would it be feasible for both the union and the league to agree to a "non-profit" season to get the players back on the ice while the lawyers keep working on a deal. Something like salaries are all even for every squad, very limited FA moves, and costs are covered for operations and any "profit" is locked away for divying up later.

[Predarat]

This ****ing sucks.

[Titty Meat]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Looks like the counter offers are all 50/50 with conditions, which sounds reasonable for taking a 7% hit.

Not a big fan of the CHL as far as the quality of hockey, but the fights can be entertaining.

How does the CHL compare to the old IHL? I really miss that league.

[Predarat]

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini

How does the CHL compare to the old IHL? I really miss that league.

OK, do you mean the old old IHL that was AAA with teams directly affiliated with the NHL, or the old IHL that used to be the UHL that was a AA league? The AA IHL merged with the CHL a few years ago, but some of those teams have folded or moved to the ECHL, like Ft Wayne and Evansville. The only teams left in the CHL from that league are Quad City and Bloomington.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini

How does the CHL compare to the old IHL? I really miss that league.

I was only 11 when the Blades left and wasn't really into hockey, so I don't remember it well enough to compare. I've only been to one MO Mavs game, so I should probably give it another chance... I just wasn't all that impressed with the quality of hockey (and I really enjoy college hockey, so I'm not a complete hockey snob).

[Titty Meat]

Originally Posted by Predarat

OK, do you mean the old old IHL that was AAA with teams directly affiliated with the NHL, or the old IHL that used to be the UHL that was a AA league? The AA IHL merged with the CHL a few years ago, but some of those teams have folded or moved to the ECHL, like Ft Wayne and Evansville. The only teams left in the CHL from that league are Quad City and Bloomington.

The old old IHL that was AAA. Seemed like they tried to challenge the NHL during the lockout in the 90s. It was a great league.

[Predarat]

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini

The old old IHL that was AAA. Seemed like they tried to challenge the NHL during the lockout in the 90s. It was a great league.

The CHL is at least a level below that, its more of a AA- league, most of the teams have no NHL or AAA affiliation. The old old IHL was great.

[Titty Meat]

Originally Posted by Predarat

The CHL is at least a level below that, its more of a AA- league, most of the teams have no NHL or AAA affiliation. The old old IHL was great.

Is it true the reason it folded was because it challenged the NHL during the 90's lockout?