Chiefs Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey - Page 17

Quesadilla Joe · 03:11 PM

A lot of new information/quotes in this article...

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html

Spoiler!

The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork.

They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks.

But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity.

As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.”

A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned.

Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired.

While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs.

While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser.

“He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey.

That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team.

“He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.”

“It’s more about his management skills,” another source added.

For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization.

“Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.”

Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others.

“It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said.

Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths.

“Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.”

“He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.”

Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star.

“He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said.

“One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.”

Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation.

“A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.”

Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless.

“He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.”

It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM.

“I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.”

Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two.

“We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM.

“To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.”

JakeF · 06-27-2017, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meatloaf

Since Hunt was engaged in negotiations to extend Dorsey, the cumulative effect of Dorsey's "transgressions" must've still been positive. Heck, maybe it just all boiled down to something in the proposed contract that Hunt and Dorsey could not agree on. I just don't see how Dorsey's prior performance would be viewed as negative by Hunt if he was all about extending him. Or, I guess it could've come down to Hunt just not wanting to mess with Dorsey and his ways anymore -- of course, if that was the case, he shouldn't have been negotiating with him in the first place.

We don't know any of this for sure.

Hunt and Reid just fired one of the better GM's in the league. If the next GM screws it up then it's on Reid and ultimately Hunt.

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-27-2017, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeF

Hunt and Reid just fired one of the better GM's in the league. If the next GM screws it up then it's on Reid

Bullshit

JakeF · 06-27-2017, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Bullshit

and ultimately Hunt.

Nice edit.

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-27-2017, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeF

and ultimately Hunt.

Nice edit.

Reid bears no responsibility for Dorsey's firing.

Furthermore, Reid's proven to be an excellent head coach, regardless of who is running the draft, claiming waived players and free agent signings.

JakeF · 06-27-2017, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Reid bears no responsibility for Dorsey's firing.

Furthermore, Reid's proven to be an excellent head coach, regardless of who is running the draft, claiming waived players and free agent signings.

Andy Reid was absolutely consulted by Hunt before firing Dorsey. Reid wouldn't have signed an extension if he truly disagreed with the move. No way Hunt fires Dorsey and then loses Reid.

At the very least, Reid was ok with Hunt firing Dorsey.

Marcellus · 06-27-2017, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate

There's no sample size because it DOESN'T ****ING EXIST, Nimrod.
Which was the entire point.

Wait a minute, so you are admitting you have absolutely no basis in which to base your hysteria other than what YOU think MIGHT happen?

Yea that's what I figured dummy.

splatbass · 06-27-2017, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeF

Andy Reid was absolutely consulted by Hunt before firing Dorsey. Reid wouldn't have signed an extension if he truly disagreed with the move. No way Hunt fires Dorsey and then loses Reid.

At the very least, Reid was ok with Hunt firing Dorsey.

Or maybe Reid didn't know and wouldn't have approved so Hunt waited until Reid signed the contract before firing Dorsey.

There are a lot of possibilities. If the real reason ever comes out it might not even be one of the scenarios discussed here.

penbrook · 06-27-2017, 05:40 PM

The #Chiefs are slated to interview #Seahawks co-director of player personnel Scott Fitterer today or early tomorrow, source said.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 06-27-2017, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Wait a minute, so you are admitting you have absolutely no basis in which to base your hysteria other than what YOU think MIGHT happen?

Yea that's what I figured dummy.

I'm going to make this as simple for you as I possibly can.

Name ONE INSTANCE in the history of professional football where a successful, winning team fired its GM or Head Coach IN THE MIDST of that team's success.

Go.

Red Dawg · 06-27-2017, 05:49 PM

Chargers fired Marty after a 14-2 season. There's one.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 06-27-2017, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeF

Andy Reid was absolutely consulted by Hunt before firing Dorsey. Reid wouldn't have signed an extension if he truly disagreed with the move. No way Hunt fires Dorsey and then loses Reid.

At the very least, Reid was ok with Hunt firing Dorsey.

Not necessarily. The reports at this point say that Reid was informed, but was not asked to give his thoughts or input on the situation.

Wait a minute.

Read that again.

Does that make any ****ing sense to you at all?

Yeah, me neither.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 06-27-2017, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuckdaddy

Chargers fired Marty after a 14-2 season. There's one.

Nice catch.

And how fitting that it happened to be a former Chiefs head coach.

Jesus...

tk13 · 06-27-2017, 05:59 PM

I argue that even Marty's firing wasn't the same as this. Marty was fired right after the playoffs, at a fairly normal time when coaches/GMs are let go. We just went through an entire offseason, draft, and are about ready for training camp.

I can't think of another time where a coach or GM was fired right before a season like this.

Red Dawg · 06-27-2017, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate

Nice catch.

And how fitting that it happened to be a former Chiefs head coach.

Jesus...

That's all I could think of. I don't recall any other situation similar.

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-27-2017, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate

I'm going to make this as simple for you as I possibly can.

Name ONE INSTANCE in the history of professional football where a successful, winning team fired its GM or Head Coach IN THE MIDST of that team's success.

Go.

The New York Giants.

Fired Ernie Accorsi after drafting Eli Manning and others.

Fired at the end of 2006, won the Super Bowl in 2007.

06-25-2017, 02:52 PM
Quesadilla Joe Abolish The Salary Cap! Join Date: Mar 2008 Casino cash: $3908675	Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey A lot of new information/quotes in this article... http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html Spoiler! The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork. They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks. But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity. As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.” A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned. Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired. While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs. While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser. “He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey. That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team. “He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.” “It’s more about his management skills,” another source added. For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization. “Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.” Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others. “It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said. Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths. “Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.” “He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.” Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star. “He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said. “One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.” Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation. “A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.” Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless. “He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.” It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM. “I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.” Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two. “We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM. “To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.” Last edited by Quesadilla Joe; 06-25-2017 at 03:11 PM..
Posts: 19,792

06-27-2017, 05:40 PM	#248
penbrook LEGEND! Join Date: Feb 2013 Casino cash: $10033840	The #Chiefs are slated to interview #Seahawks co-director of player personnel Scott Fitterer today or early tomorrow, source said.
Posts: 16,409

06-27-2017, 05:49 PM	#250
Red Dawg Going home eventually Join Date: Dec 2002 Casino cash: $4602858	Chargers fired Marty after a 14-2 season. There's one. __________________ If you're not first you're last!
Posts: 30,471

06-27-2017, 05:59 PM	#253
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $1772500	I argue that even Marty's firing wasn't the same as this. Marty was fired right after the playoffs, at a fairly normal time when coaches/GMs are let go. We just went through an entire offseason, draft, and are about ready for training camp. I can't think of another time where a coach or GM was fired right before a season like this.
Posts: 54,978