Chiefs Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey - Page 2

Quesadilla Joe · 03:11 PM

A lot of new information/quotes in this article...

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html

Spoiler!

The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork.

They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks.

But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity.

As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.”

A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned.

Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired.

While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs.

While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser.

“He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey.

That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team.

“He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.”

“It’s more about his management skills,” another source added.

For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization.

“Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.”

Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others.

“It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said.

Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths.

“Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.”

“He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.”

Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star.

“He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said.

“One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.”

Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation.

“A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.”

Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless.

“He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.”

It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM.

“I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.”

Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two.

“We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM.

“To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.”

**Rain Man** · 06-25-2017, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Smoke

Dorsey defenitely had some successes in Kansas City, but he's also had his share of blunders.

I hear that Babe Ruth struck out a lot, too. Until they replace Dorsey with someone who drafts the next Tyreek Hill and Chris Jones, I'm going to petulantly pout.

Eleazar · 06-25-2017, 05:07 PM

Nothing about this, the timing of the decision, Dorsey's performance, letting Ballard get away, extending Reid immediately - nothing about it says that we are getting the truth here.

WhiteWhale · 06-25-2017, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

Nothing about this, the timing of the decision, Dorsey's performance, letting Ballard get away, extending Reid immediately - nothing about it says that we are getting the truth here.

There's no way I'm going to buy it was *simply* about money.

I'm also curious to find out what it was between Hunt and Dorsey. It's hard to separate speculation from truth at this point. It all SOUNDS like speculation.

KChiefs1 · 06-25-2017, 05:21 PM

Clark Hunt sucks ass.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

KChiefs1 · 06-25-2017, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

"Could wear on people" and "communication style" - yes, these are totally sane reasons to fire one of the league's best executives a month before training camp starts...

And believing what CHunt is telling us - that it was a contract dispute. i.e., money, would be the saddest truth of all.

**** Clark Hunt!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mcaj22 · 06-25-2017, 05:24 PM

that literally describes Belichick

Dorsey was basically Belichick without the rings and got fired for it because I guess Clark hates talent? winning?

-King- · 06-25-2017, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

"Could wear on people" and "communication style" - yes, these are totally sane reasons to fire one of the league's best executives a month before training camp starts...

And believing what CHunt is telling us - that it was a contract dispute. i.e., money, would be the saddest truth of all.

So you would have had no problem with continuing down the path we were going regarding contracts? You do realize that puts us in a very disadvantaged position when it's time to re-sign our own players much less get FAs? We barely have money to sign rookies this year. What about when we have to re-sign Hill and Jones and Mahomes?
Posted via Mobile Device

ChiefsCountry · 06-25-2017, 05:34 PM

Dorsey was over his head as a general manager. It's not that hard to see you. He is best situated to be the #2 guy or as a director of personal. He can't do contracts. He apparently has bad communication skills. He is horrible with free agents and extensions. Andy Reid is the main reason we won anyways.

It's all pretty clear when you put this piece of information with RunKC's information.

KChiefs1 · 06-25-2017, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Dorsey was over his head as a general manager. It's not that hard to see you. He is best situated to be the #2 guy or as a director of personal. He can't do contracts. He apparently has bad communication skills. He is horrible with free agents and extensions. Andy Reid is the main reason we won anyways.

It's all pretty clear when you put this piece of information with RunKC's information.

Talent wins championships.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

-King- · 06-25-2017, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KChiefs1

Talent wins championships.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What happens when you can't retain that talent due to cap issues?
Posted via Mobile Device

**wazu** · 06-25-2017, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King-

What happens when you can't retain that talent due to cap issues?
Posted via Mobile Device

You are loaded up with new talent to take their places.

**Gonzo** · 06-25-2017, 05:46 PM

I'm starting to see comparisons to Dan Snyder and the Redskins here.

Maybe Chunt should just stfu and let the men talk a bit.

milkman · 06-25-2017, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

There's no way I'm going to buy it was *simply* about money.

I'm also curious to find out what it was between Hunt and Dorsey. It's hard to separate speculation from truth at this point. It all SOUNDS like speculation.

I think it's all speculation, but that is all we have.

I imagine the reasons speculated in this article are probably some of the issues that led to this decision, but I also think that the manner is which Maclin's release was handled the straw, so to speak..

In spite of the things that Dorsey was good at, that reflects on the Chiefs as an organization, and Clark could not let that go.

Red Dawg · 06-25-2017, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious

If things are working stay out of your employees' way.

That's not how management works. He did one thing well, scout players. Nobody but the owner can just do whatever they want. He Alain fogged up our cap bad.

NWTF · 06-25-2017, 06:01 PM

Not sure what caused the rift between Hunt and Dorsey, but its likely cap management and handling of players (Maclin an Andy Reid favorite) came into play during Andys extension.

I think its interesting Dorseys firing was announced shortly after Andy was extended. You think Andy knew it was coming or was he blindsided with the news the teams GM was just fired just after signing his extension. Yeah, he knew and he probably tipped the scales in the direction it went.

Doesnt matter, Chiefs will rebound and if Dorsey was rubbing too many people the wrong way then its what had to happen.

06-25-2017, 02:52 PM
Quesadilla Joe Abolish The Salary Cap! Join Date: Mar 2008 Casino cash: $3978675	Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey A lot of new information/quotes in this article... http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html Spoiler! The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork. They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks. But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity. As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.” A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned. Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired. While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs. While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser. “He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey. That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team. “He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.” “It’s more about his management skills,” another source added. For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization. “Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.” Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others. “It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said. Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths. “Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.” “He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.” Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star. “He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said. “One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.” Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation. “A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.” Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless. “He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.” It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM. “I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.” Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two. “We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM. “To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.” Last edited by Quesadilla Joe; 06-25-2017 at 03:11 PM..
Posts: 19,766

06-25-2017, 05:07 PM	#17
Eleazar Beyond the Rapids Join Date: May 2003 Location: Langley, VA Casino cash: $-370000	Nothing about this, the timing of the decision, Dorsey's performance, letting Ballard get away, extending Reid immediately - nothing about it says that we are getting the truth here.
Posts: 80,659

06-25-2017, 05:21 PM	#19
KChiefs1 I’m a Mahomo! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Mid-Missouri Casino cash: $6771021	Clark Hunt sucks ass. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________
Posts: 54,038

06-25-2017, 05:24 PM	#21
mcaj22 MVP Join Date: Feb 2010 Casino cash: $10014454	that literally describes Belichick Dorsey was basically Belichick without the rings and got fired for it because I guess Clark hates talent? winning?
Posts: 11,886

06-25-2017, 05:34 PM	#23
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $2198752	Dorsey was over his head as a general manager. It's not that hard to see you. He is best situated to be the #2 guy or as a director of personal. He can't do contracts. He apparently has bad communication skills. He is horrible with free agents and extensions. Andy Reid is the main reason we won anyways. It's all pretty clear when you put this piece of information with RunKC's information.
Posts: 49,690

06-25-2017, 06:01 PM	#30
NWTF Veteran Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: overland park Casino cash: $9827081	Not sure what caused the rift between Hunt and Dorsey, but its likely cap management and handling of players (Maclin an Andy Reid favorite) came into play during Andys extension. I think its interesting Dorseys firing was announced shortly after Andy was extended. You think Andy knew it was coming or was he blindsided with the news the teams GM was just fired just after signing his extension. Yeah, he knew and he probably tipped the scales in the direction it went. Doesnt matter, Chiefs will rebound and if Dorsey was rubbing too many people the wrong way then its what had to happen.
Posts: 2,580